Pool Requireing 96oz of bleach per day, What tricks can be done to reduce this usage?

[caliskier]

Hi All, been using the TPFC method for a little over a month now and think my pool might be too thersty for chlorine in the evenings when i add...

I typically do the OTO test kit and get around 1 PPM and raise it to 4 ppm by adding 96oz of bleach per pool math. Are their some tricks i am not thinking of that I can use to reduce the chlorine loss?

As of 2:30 this afternoon
FC = 1.5
CC = 0
CH = 150
TA = 120
CYA = 20
PH = 8.2+ almost purple

So yes, the CYA is a little low, going to bring that up to 30... Any tricks or thoughts?
I am running a waterfall from the hottub to the pool, drop is about 4 to 6" not sure if it matters.

 

[woodyp]

Get that PH into mid 7 range first. Your CYA level is too low for your location. I keep mine at 50 in Texas at least. It would laugh at 30! Maintain FC levels within range of min and max for your cya level.

 

[zea3]

Your pH is way too high, it needs to come down to 7.2-7.5, it may actually be higher than 8.2 since that is where the test tops out. If you are going to keep the waterfall running then you will need to stay on top of the pH to prevent it from going to high and damaging the pool. You can lower pH and work on the CYA at the same time.

Your CYA is too low. 30ppm is the minimum. At 20ppm or less you are losing FC to sunlight. Raise it between 30-50 ppm and see if that makes a difference. Run an OCLT to make sure you don't need to slam the pool.

Since your attached spa is plaster bring the CH level up to 250.

 

[pooldv]

Yes, the waterfall will cause PH to rise. Add 20 or so ppm of cya in a sock in the skimmer. And never ever let the chlorine level drop below minimum unless you are a fan of green pools. Keep chlorine at or a little above target at all times. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

 

[duraleigh]

Important to under stand that TFP has no "tricks". It is all about understanding what you are doing and why you are doing it.

You are too low on your CYA for Oklahoma. As others have said, probably 50 ppm in your area and you chlorine usage will fall back to normal.

There's no trick, that info is right in the FC/CYA relationship chart in Pool School.

 

[caliskier]

Yes, the waterfall will cause PH to rise. Add 20 or so ppm of cya in a sock in the skimmer. And never ever let the chlorine level drop below minimum unless you are a fan of green pools. Keep chlorine at or a little above target at all times. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Thanks, I was wondering if the waterfall did cause it to rise, I guess I will not use it. Why doee the waterfall cause the PH to rise?

Thanks to everyone else, I will lower the PH and raise the CYA, I understand to use muriatic acid for the ph and stabilizer for the CYA...

Questions:
CYA: I know it takes a long time to disolve, I do the skimmer sock method, question is do i have to have the pump running 24 hours a day or can I just keep it on my normal cycle? I am asking because I am ok with letting it sit in the water if it won't hurt anything while the pump is off rather than running the electricity, trying to keep that bill down.

Muriatic Acid:
1. What is the best method to add?
2. Where can i get it at a low cost?

Thanks as always guys!!

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Important to under stand that TFP has no "tricks". It is all about understanding what you are doing and why you are doing it.

You are too low on your CYA for Oklahoma. As others have said, probably 50 ppm in your area and you chlorine usage will fall back to normal.

There's no trick, that info is right in the FC/CYA relationship chart in Pool School.

Totally understand, I am an engineer, I have figured out ways to make my prelude exceed the manufactures MPG, I call those tricks. In this case I meant tricks as a word for the little things people might be doing to shave off extra oz of chlorine that I am not aware of.

The info here has been fantastic, my pool looks so much better than it did last year, my first year when my head was inverted.

 

[chem geek]

Why doee the waterfall cause the PH to rise?

Questions:
CYA: I know it takes a long time to disolve, I do the skimmer sock method, question is do i have to have the pump running 24 hours a day or can I just keep it on my normal cycle? I am asking because I am ok with letting it sit in the water if it won't hurt anything while the pump is off rather than running the electricity, trying to keep that bill down.

Muriatic Acid:
1. What is the best method to add?
2. Where can i get it at a low cost?

Aeration from the waterfall (i.e. greater air/water surface area) increases the rate of carbon dioxide outgassing from the water into the air. This in effect removes carbonic acid from the water and that raises the pH with no change in TA. TA is mostly a measure of the over-carbonation of the water and pools are over-carbonated to saturate the water with calcium carbonate to protect plaster surfaces. Your TA is too high so along with aeration from the waterfall it has the pH rise faster.

It would be best to leave the pump running so that the dissolving CYA doesn't lower the pH locally too much, but if you can't do that it's not as bad as having Trichlor in the skimmer since that's about twice as acidic as CYA. It doesn't actually take very long to dissolve the CYA if you are doing that in a sock in the skimmer. It takes longer hanging over a return flow, but the skimmer tends to be the fastest way to dissolve it and is what I do. Unless you are dissolving a rather large amount, it usually only takes less than 24 hours when done in the skimmer. At least it does for me, though I use an old T-shirt instead of a sock.

The best method for adding acid is to add it SLOWLY over a return flow with the pump running, preferably in the deep end of the pool. Then after adding it, lightly brush the side and bottom of the pool in the area where you add acid to ensure thorough mixing.

You can usually get acid at reasonable prices at hardware or big-box stores or some pool stores. Just be careful to get the full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% hydrochloric acid) or if you do get the half-strength 15-16% that fumes less make sure it's half the price. You may need to look in two different parts of the store to find the different strengths of acid since it can be sold in the pool/garden center department or in the paint department.

 

[caliskier]

Aeration from the waterfall (i.e. greater air/water surface area) increases the rate of carbon dioxide outgassing from the water into the air. This in effect removes carbonic acid from the water and that raises the pH with no change in TA. TA is mostly a measure of the over-carbonation of the water and pools are over-carbonated to saturate the water with calcium carbonate to protect plaster surfaces. Your TA is too high so along with aeration from the waterfall it has the pH rise faster.

It would be best to leave the pump running so that the dissolving CYA doesn't lower the pH locally too much, but if you can't do that it's not as bad as having Trichlor in the skimmer since that's about twice as acidic as CYA. It doesn't actually take very long to dissolve the CYA if you are doing that in a sock in the skimmer. It takes longer hanging over a return flow, but the skimmer tends to be the fastest way to dissolve it and is what I do. Unless you are dissolving a rather large amount, it usually only takes less than 24 hours when done in the skimmer. At least it does for me, though I use an old T-shirt instead of a sock.

The best method for adding acid is to add it SLOWLY over a return flow with the pump running, preferably in the deep end of the pool. Then after adding it, lightly brush the side and bottom of the pool in the area where you add acid to ensure thorough mixing.

You can usually get acid at reasonable prices at hardware or big-box stores or some pool stores. Just be careful to get the full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% hydrochloric acid) or if you do get the half-strength 15-16% that fumes less make sure it's half the price. You may need to look in two different parts of the store to find the different strengths of acid since it can be sold in the pool/garden center department or in the paint department.

Thank You! for all the info, and appreciate the explanation on the waterfall ph increase. If I understand why something is happening I know how to work with it. Thanks again!!

 

[cowboycasey]

Hey there you can get muriatic acid at Atwoods and liquid bleach, 10% , 4 gallons for 10 bucks

 

[caliskier]

Hey there you can get muriatic acid at Atwoods and liquid bleach, 10% , 4 gallons for 10 bucks

Hey Hey Cowboy!! Good to hear from you my friend, hope Bill did not mess with you like he did with Houston, we got about 2-3 inches, but not too bad.... As for chlorine.. 4 gallons of 10% bleach for $10 at Atwoods???? I'm there!! I wonder if I can order it in cases, they are a little far from me, but if I buy several cases and store in a cool dark place maybe I can kill the whole season in one buy...

 

[caliskier]

So general question, I have the muriatic acid, there were 2 kinds, muriatic acid and muriatic acid next. I got just plain muriatic acid which was called hydrochloric acid on the back of the label 31.45%-20 Baume. I assume that is the right stuff?

Once i have my CYA up to 50, assuming all other settings are normal, about how much chlorine should I expect to add per day?

 

[cowboycasey]

So general question, I have the muriatic acid, there were 2 kinds, muriatic acid and muriatic acid next. I got just plain muriatic acid which was called hydrochloric acid on the back of the label 31.45%-20 Baume. I assume that is the right stuff?

Once i have my CYA up to 50, assuming all other settings are normal, about how much chlorine should I expect to add per day?

bill missed us by 5 miles it hit my son's summer camp and dumped 4 inches in 24 hours, they named it MUD CAMP 2015

every pool is different on how much chlorine it takes daily, at 50CYA it should be minimal but time will tell

that is the correct MA, the 31%... You can get in cases, my buddy at work just got 4 cases...

 

[caliskier]

bill missed us by 5 miles it hit my son's summer camp and dumped 4 inches in 24 hours, they named it MUD CAMP 2015

every pool is different on how much chlorine it takes daily, at 50CYA it should be minimal but time will tell

that is the correct MA, the 31%... You can get in cases, my buddy at work just got 4 cases...

Hey Cowboy, so my wife was heading back from Texas and stopped at Atwoods, she got the wrong stuff, no % on the side. Can you tell me what the name of the bleach or chlorine is that you got and where about in the store you got it, (i.e. in household or in a pool section they might have). We are going to go by one here in a few days I might see what they have. I can probably figure it out myself, but if you have your ears on.

BTW, what we bought is probably 5.5% based on my calcs with how much bleach to add to a gallon for household use compared to the 8.25 that I have
This stuff was .75 cups to a gallon the 8.25 was .5 to a gallon.

 

[Chrissykr]

Hey Cowboy, so my wife was heading back from Texas and stopped at Atwoods, she got the wrong stuff, no % on the side. Can you tell me what the name of the bleach or chlorine is that you got and where about in the store you got it, (i.e. in household or in a pool section they might have). We are going to go by one here in a few days I might see what they have. I can probably figure it out myself, but if you have your ears on.

BTW, what we bought is probably 5.5% based on my calcs with how much bleach to add to a gallon for household use compared to the 8.25 that I have
This stuff was .75 cups to a gallon the 8.25 was .5 to a gallon.

They call it liquid pool shock. It is by the pool supplies. Right now in AR they are running it for $7.99 a four pack.

 

[pooldv]

I buy bleach at Kroger, grocery store brand plain, unscented bleach. NOT easypour or splashless or scented. It says concentrated bleach and list 8.25% sodium hypochlorite. Also get it at Target, same thing. In the cleaning/laundry section. They both also have 10% liquid chlorine in the pool section.

 

[cowboycasey]

Hey Cowboy, so my wife was heading back from Texas and stopped at Atwoods, she got the wrong stuff, no % on the side. Can you tell me what the name of the bleach or chlorine is that you got and where about in the store you got it, (i.e. in household or in a pool section they might have). We are going to go by one here in a few days I might see what they have. I can probably figure it out myself, but if you have your ears on.

BTW, what we bought is probably 5.5% based on my calcs with how much bleach to add to a gallon for household use compared to the 8.25 that I have
This stuff was .75 cups to a gallon the 8.25 was .5 to a gallon.

It's in the pool supplies part.. 10% pool shock. [emoji3] nice hearing from you... I bet she found stuff for water trough's

 

[caliskier]

They call it liquid pool shock. It is by the pool supplies. Right now in AR they are running it for $7.99 a four pack.

WOW, that is a great deal, we are going to be near one this weekend, will have to hit them up.

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It's in the pool supplies part.. 10% pool shock. [emoji3] nice hearing from you... I bet she found stuff for water trough's

Thank you cowboy for the recomendation.