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Thread: Pump run time?

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    Pump run time?

    This question can be listed in many topics, but I figured I would post it here due to high traffic here.

    Where did the pump run times come from? In the summer, I run my filter pump (and SWG) for 10 hrs and in the lower use winter time I back down to 8 hrs. I see some people even go down to 6 hrs.

    Is there any science to this, or is it all just emprical data?

    Thanks!
    AquaPure 1400 SWG with Titanium Heat Pump and Automated Jandy Controls w/PDA
    12,000 gal. Pool / Spa Combo since 1/08
    1.5 HP filter pump & 2.0 HP spa jet pump, Great White auto-cleaner
    Sta-Rite Posi Clear 125 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit
    Vero Beach, Florida

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    no-mas's Avatar
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    Re: Pump run time?

    General rule is run the pump long enough to turn the water once in winter and twice when the pool is being used - some run their pumps 24X7.

    I'm in N Florida and run my pump about 4 hours over the winter - enough to turn the pool once. Over spring and summer, it's closer to 10 hrs because the pool is getting lots of use, and because I like the waterfalls running while DW and kids are home to enjoy it. You can't really run the pump too long... but it does use lots of electricity.
    18k gal inground, everbrite finish, 505 sq ft; 1.5 hp two speed whisperflow; rheem 5100ti 100k btu heat pump; 3 sheer descent falls; DE filter; swg (cell out and using trichlor for now)

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    Guest

    Re: Pump run time?

    A combination of how a SWG works (cell reversal times), costs of electricity for running a pump, and how long a pump should run to keep a pool clear in different seasons so I would have to say it's a combination of empirical data and the science of how a SWG works.

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Pump run time?

    It's 'scientific', but you have to know what your system is doing. Let's say your 1.5hp pump is moving 75 gpm and you've got 12,000 gallons. That's about a 3 hour turnover rate, which is pretty fast. That means you could get away with 3 hours in the winter and 6 hours in the summer.

    However, that's just a baseline and reality can bite into it. Maybe you need more motion in the pool because of lots of nooks and crannies. Or maybe it's going to be 10 degrees outside and you have to run it all night.

    But in order to set your real turnover you'll have to either measure the suction and pressure side head on the pump or install a flow meter. If you tell us specifically what type of pump you have and what your plumbing size is we can give you a better estimate, but 75 gpm is realistic.

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    Guest

    Re: Pump run time?

    I mentioned before the 'cell reversal time' of your SWG. Different units reverse polarity at different times. For example, the Goldline units have a 100 minute reverse cycle time and the Pool Pilots have and adjustable reverse cycle time of 2,4, or 8 hours (if I remember correctly--don't have the manuals in front of me right now ). You really want to run your pump in even multiples of this time for your system to both maximize cell life and to effectively minimize scale deposits on the cell plates.
    This means if you have a Pool Pilot with a default cell reversal time of 4 hours then you should run you pump for 8 hours so the cell runs a full cycle in both polarities. If you need a longer run time theb the next you should go to would be 12 hours for 3 full cycles.
    With a Goldline unit you will get a complete reversal every 3 hours and 20 minutes so you should run you pump in multiples of this. Every 1 hour 40 minutes of run time is another reversal. Good choices of pump run time for Goldline units woudl be 10 hours and 5 hours.

    Realize that if you do not follow these guidelines exactly the world will not end , the SWG Secret Police will not descent upon your house and confiscate your pool, and you will not be forced to sit in the corner all day BUT it can shorten the life of your cell and you might have more of a problem with scale deposts than if you follow these guidelines .

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump run time?

    I have a Goldline Aqualogic PS8 (crica 2005) and it has a 120 minute cycle so not all Goldline units have a 100 min cycle. I currently have it set to 20% and after 24 min, it shuts off for the next 96 min. I'm not sure which units have 100 min and which have 120 min but I suspect it has to do with the software rev of board.

    One thing I would like to point out about SWG cycles is that once the unit shuts off, it really doesn't matter from a cycle perspective if you continue to run the pump for the remaining off part of the cycle. At the start of the pump's run cycle the next day, the unit will start at the beginning of the cycle anyway. At least that is how my unit works.

    So if I run the pump for 6 hours or 4.4 hours (SWG set at 20%), it is the same amount SWG cycles and SWG on time. The only thing that is different is the amount of time the pump is on but the SWG is off. However, I'm not sure that is the way Pool Pilots work.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

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    Re: Pump run time?

    I think that the stand alone Goldline Aqurite SWGs have a 100 minute cycle. The combined SWG and controllers have a 120 minute cycle. I have an Aqua Plus unit and it also has a 120 minute cycle. It also appears that it remembers the previous cycle's polarity from one filter cycle to a next.
    7,500 gal, IG pool, L shape 22' x 15', 1.5 hp pump, cartridge filter, AquaPlus SWG/Controller, Pebble-Tec liner.

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    Re: Pump run time?

    I don't know where the idea of 1 turnover/day came from but my pool water stays crystal clear with much less. I realize every pool is different. I have a swg and run borates at 50 ppm. Perhaps that contributes to never having an algae w/o circulating the full volume daily. At this time I'm running 12k/day on a 26k pool. Summertime with daily swimming I run it at 21k. I do keep a close eye on Cl and never let it get below 1-2ppm. Now that I have my cya at proper levels for swg I will keep it closer to 4-5. I also brush the pool regularly; which really seems to keep the plaster and the water clean. I also run a variable speed pump at 25gpm which allows the swg to run longer when needed and keeps the water moving longer than a high speed pump running just running for 3-4 hours. Maybe I'm just a tightwad but I don't like giving my money to the utility company.

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    Re: Pump run time?

    The Pool Pilot Soft Touch and Digital are not dependent on the pump run time as it has a memory to ensure even cell wear. If you ran 6 hrs/day, it would run the 4 hrs, change polarity direction for 2 hrs, then the following day on start up, complete the remaining 2 hrs before changing polarity direction again.

    Our older metal box LS series did not have a memory and was prone to uneven cell wear, based on pump run hours/day... as waterbear explained.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Pump run time?

    most of the chlorinators have this feature, maybe with the exception of Intex
    all our models had it since early 90-ies

    it's more of a how long it takes to filter properly

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: Pump run time?

    Do the Intex SWGs reverse polarity at all or do they just not remember which it was on?

    Thanks,
    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

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    Re: Pump run time?

    If the Pool Pilot Total Digital runs for 3.25 hours in the winter what would be the best set for the reverse time?

    Aloha.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Re: Pump run time?

    Quote Originally Posted by launboy
    Do the Intex SWGs reverse polarity at all or do they just not remember which it was on?

    Thanks,
    Adam
    not sure
    i know they don't remember timer time, it has to be reset if the power goes off
    i don't think they are reverse polarity, for the price they sell them

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    Re: Pump run time?

    Quote Originally Posted by smallpooldad
    If the Pool Pilot Total Digital runs for 3.25 hours in the winter what would be the best set for the reverse time?

    Aloha.
    depending on your water balance
    as long as possible, before it starts calcifying

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    Re: Pump run time?

    Strannik,

    Thank you for your quick reply. There is no calcium build-up; so I suppose 3.25 hours run time and then reverse every 8 or 16 hours?

    Your reply seems, and I may be wrong, different from the idealized half and half formula mentioned above, why is that? May be I am not understanding this correctly. I realize that the half and half is not set in stone but 4 to 16 is a fairly large jump.

    If that half and half formula were the case then it would be 4 hours run time and reverse 4 hours idealized. Would that wear out the cell faster? Using the half and half I would presumably go 3.25 hours on then either 2 or 4 hours reverse?

    That formula is also the time that the PoolPilot tech people gave me so now I am a bit confused.

    I hope I have not confused you and I hope you understand my dilemma. You further guidance would be appreciated.

    Below is the balance report.

    Measured pH 7.5
    Total Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3) 80
    Free Chlorine (ppm Cl2) 5
    Cyanuric Acid (ppm CYA) 60
    Calcium Hardness (ppm CaCO3) 525
    Total Dissolved Solids (ppm) 3644
    Total Borate (ppm Boron) 50
    U.S. Gallons 10000
    Temperature (oF) 78
    Total Chloride (ppm NaCl) 3200
    Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) -0.08
    Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) -0.2

    Aloha.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Re: Pump run time?

    the pump run time and reversal time are two completely independent things (provided the SWG remembers how long it has worked in one direction)
    that half and half rule only applies to SWGs which don't memorize how long they have ran in one direction.

    often reversal certainly causes more damage to the cell.

    Here is what Autochlor recommends on their chlorinators:

    The reversing time of the machine can be changed from 8 hours to 6 hours or even as low as 4 hours for some extreme cases. By increasing the frequency of the electrode reversal, less scaling will be deposited on the cell.

    However care must be taken not to be too aggressive in selecting a reversing time cycle as it could significantly reduce the life span of your chlorinator’s electrode.

    As a general rule, if the electrode on your Switch Mode series chlorinator gets calcified in less than 8-10 weeks, reducing the setting is recommended.

    Normally, a reduction in the recycle times should be taken one step at a time. Reduce the setting to 6 hours and operate the machine for 8-10 weeks to see the result. It this is not sufficient, reduce the setting further to 6 hours reversal.
    so if i were you i would leave it at what it was if it was working for you.
    as far as the balance goes, it looks ok although CH is a bit high for my liking

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    Re: Pump run time?

    Strannik,

    Thank you for the reply, I now understand what was meant. I think I will leave the reverse time at 4 hours.

    The Chlorine is set a little high to bleach out old deeply embedded tannin stains. Too long a story to write here. It works better in the winter when the pool is cooler but it takes a very long time.

    Aloha and thank you for the help.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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