New pool, new test kit, chlorine disappearing

[Jkpharm]

So, our 16x30 IG pool was just installed end of July 2014. This year when we opened it on May 5th, the water looked great - could've swam in it (at least it looked that way). However, we have fought all season to keep chlorine in the pool. The pool store/pool installer tested for and said "phosphates." We did an abbreviated version Phos-Free treatment (long story ... ), had water re-tested by pool store and said "no phosphates - add 5# shock." Next morning, NO CHLORINE. Had water re-tested, again "phosphates." We've crippled along here adding shock just to keep some chlorine in the pool and not grow a whole lot of other stuff. The CYA had gone from 60 down to 30, then down to 15. So, we backwashed everything, even pulling the filter apart and washing everything off and added 8# CYA on 5/29. Per store recommendation, added 2# shock and had water re-tested because chlorine still wasn't holding. Same story ... "phosphates. You're going to have to do another Phos-Free treatment, but this time we'll just have you add 1/2 the bottle." They know my frustration with this Phos-Free process because I don't have the time to sit around and babysit a pump when the pressure gets too high --> can't bump the filter --> not getting adequate circulation --> might as well not even do the treatment. Plus, we were going to be away for 3 days, so we postponed that process until --maybe-- this weekend coming up (6/13-14). In the meantime, I figured my test kit would come in the mail. While we were away, my SIL added 2# TKO shock (calcium hypochlorite 73%, other ingredients 27%, free chlorine 70%) to the pool everyday. Maybe a little overboard, but it was the only way I could keep my sanity from afar knowing there wasn't stuff growing in the pool - hopefully.

Before I posted for the first time, I wanted to get a TF-100 kit so I could be on the same page with everyone else. So, these were the results of my first testing run and this was after 3 days of 2# TKO shock.


FC: 14
CC: 0.5
CH: 525
TA: 130
CYA: 60 (may be a little off -- over shot the reagent)
PH: 7.5


I was hoping we were finished with the high amounts of chlorine and I could prove the pool store incorrect about the phosphates. However, here are some results from this morning.

FC: 8.5
CC: 0
CYA: ~70 (re-did since I messed this up yesterday)

I know my CYA is too high to SLAM because I'd need such large amounts/high FC. I attribute the high CH from the TKO shock that was added 3 days in a row.

I need help ... the lack of chlorine in the pool has been a bane in my side all season, so far. We removed 72 tri-axles of dirt to put the pool in ... I've threatened more than once to go bring them all back and fill the thing in and chalk it up to a VERY expensive learning experience.

 

[Patrick_B]

Welcome to the forum!

We can get you out of this mess pretty easy, but you have unfortunately listened to poor advice. Chlorine makes phosphates irrelevant. Once you kill the Algae, and maintain good FC levels, it no longer matters. We have thousands of members who have no problems, and have no idea what their Phosphates are.

You need to perform a SLAM on the pool. It is a process whereby you add a lot of FC to the pool, and you hold a given high level until the pool is clear. You do not let up on it, and it will work. I guarantee it 100%, but you have to follow the procedure to the letter. It takes a lot less Chlorine in terms of product used if you reduce the Cya first. The only way to do that reliably, is to do partial drains on the pool until you get it down to 30-40 at most. When you get there, you can SLAM with a lower level of FC and use much less. We will walk you through this, when you need help, but it will turn your pool around. Stop going back there, and follow the SLAM. Click the link in my signature to read about it. Once you reduce the Cya (stabilizer) you may need to adjust the pH before you start. Post back, let us know, and we can help.

 

[pabeader]

Is your water cloudy? I don't understand what your saying about the chlorine level. Looks like you've got more than enough in there...

 

[duraleigh]

Phosphates are irrelevant.

What does your water look like?

 

[Isaac-1]

This is just a guess, but is based on the overall tone of your frustration, so while you follow the SLAM process already mentioned look for hidden algae. Often even in a clear looking pools algae will find a nook or crevice where there is poor circulation, therefore low levels of chlorination and thrive. Common places are under ladders, or removable steps and behind light niches, check these places scrub and see if you find globs of green algae.

 

[pabeader]

if the chlorination in that area is low, then how would the FC drop because of it?

 

[Richard320]

Welcome!

Right here:

Before I posted for the first time, I wanted to get a TF-100 kit so I could be on the same page with everyone else.

That was the turning point. You can be in control now.

The CYA is high, but not unreasonable. The CH is also high, but easily managed.

The big question: what does the water look like now? Don't lose sight of the big picture. Crystal clear odorless sparkling water is the goal. All these test results do is assist us in keeping it that way.

If you need to SLAM, take a deep breath, and start draining some water to lower CYA. This is it, the end of your wasted efforts. Even just taking it down to 50 CYA will be a big help. Before you start draining... recheck your pool volume. 16*30 rectangular pool would have to be 7 feet deep the whole pool to be 25000 gallons. If it's oval or freeform, it's going to hold less. And if you have a shallow end, the average depth will be even lower.

Anyway, replace maybe 25% of the water. Let it mix. Adjust the pH, and hit it with bleach. Assuming you want this over with quick, keep on it every couple hours maintaining shock level for whatever your CYA end up. Scrub out the light niche and any ladders. You've seen the SLAM article, just follow it to the letter.

This could well be the last time you don't see the bottom of the pool clearly, so take pictures.

 

[Jkpharm]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I've been trolling around on TFP for a couple weeks checking out other suggestions and problems. I think this forum will be quite helpful!

So, my husband tells me our pool is 16x34 and I dug out paperwork and yes, he is correct. The shallow end is 3' and the deep end is 8'. I thought I saw on here somewhere how to calculate the number of gallons that our pool would hold, but I couldn't find it when I needed it. So, I usually figure around 22,000-25,000?

What does my pool look like?

I think it currently looks crystal clear! There were some spots on the bottom last week that I would call "brown" that did not brush off or suck up in the vacuum. They bothered me enough that I donned a pair of goggles and dove to the bottom equipped with a Magic Eraser to remove them. Last week was not the first time I saw those spots. I would say when they did appear (in the past), they re-appeared in the same spots. I don't know if that's some kind of algae or mold?

I did retest the FC & CC levels this afternoon after some light swimming:
FC: 8 (drop of only 0.5ppm over the course of the day)
CC: 0

Oy. Do I dread the thought of draining out water to get the CYA down. We are on a well ... don't know how much water we can add to the pool from there. Other option: water tanker $145 a load (3500 gal). I have to contemplate that one a little bit.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you everyone for your responses! I've been trolling around on TFP for a couple weeks checking out other suggestions and problems. I think this forum will be quite helpful!

So, my husband tells me our pool is 16x34 and I dug out paperwork and yes, he is correct. The shallow end is 3' and the deep end is 8'. I thought I saw on here somewhere how to calculate the number of gallons that our pool would hold, but I couldn't find it when I needed it. So, I usually figure around 22,000-25,000?

What does my pool look like?

I think it currently looks crystal clear! There were some spots on the bottom last week that I would call "brown" that did not brush off or suck up in the vacuum. They bothered me enough that I donned a pair of goggles and dove to the bottom equipped with a Magic Eraser to remove them. Last week was not the first time I saw those spots. I would say when they did appear (in the past), they re-appeared in the same spots. I don't know if that's some kind of algae or mold?

I did retest the FC & CC levels this afternoon after some light swimming:
FC: 8 (drop of only 0.5ppm over the course of the day)
CC: 0

Oy. Do I dread the thought of draining out water to get the CYA down. We are on a well ... don't know how much water we can add to the pool from there. Other option: water tanker $145 a load (3500 gal). I have to contemplate that one a little bit.

 

[Jkpharm]

Maybe I need a lesson on how to reply to posts since it appears I replied 3 times above

 

[Richard320]

That water looks awful darn good to me.

The best way to determine if you need a SLAM is to do the overnight loss test. Yes, it's a PITA to set the alarm to be up before the sun to go test the FC level. And you'll have the pump on all night, which won't help your electric bill much.

The keys are
1) If you need to raise FC up to get it above 5, aim for 10. You must let it mix thoroughly - 1/2 hour pump on and some brushing to get things really stirred up - before you get your after-sunset sample.
2) You want to leave the pump on and maybe make a few passes with the brush before sunrise to mix things up before getting your sample
3) I'd use the 25 ml sample and count each drop as .2 FC just for this. You really want to be sure the loss is less than 1.0 0.6 and 0.8 will read as 1.0 if you use the smaller sample and count by .5 ... wouldn't you like to know absolutely that your loss was less than 1?

If you pass, no SLAM is needed. Just maintain FC adequate for the CYA level and try to keep pH at the lower end of acceptable so you don't get any Calcium scaling. That's it. No need to strain the well.

As for volume, the calculator at the bottom of poolmath says that 16*34* 5.5 (that's the average of 2' and 8' depths) holds 22400 gallons. If you discover over the next few months that you're consistently over or under shooting when you add chemicals, then you can fine tune that. For now, just plug that number in when you use poolmath.

 

[kimkats]

I do not think you did anything wrong. I have seen some double and triple posts in the past couple of days.

That water/pool looks awesome!

Do as Richard says with the Overnight test.

Getting the good test kit was your best move ever for your pool!

Hugs!!! You have already taken control of your pool!

Kim

 

[Jkpharm]

Thank you Richard320. I just measured my nighttime FC using the 25 mL sample. I know to run the pump overnight. However, does it matter if I cover the pool? Also, the heater is running at 84 degrees. Should I back the temperature down at all overnight? Does that alter the morning results?

 

[Richard320]

Covering it might introduce any algae stuck on the cover. I suppose it would be nice to know if it was something as simple as that! Heating, I don't know. Never ran my heater overnight.

 

[Jkpharm]

Hmmmm, interesting. I never thought about algae on the cover. I'm going to leave that off tonight and I backed the heater down to 75 degrees. It's supposed to rain for the next 2 days anyway, so no point in heating the water for the next 2 days.

 

[Jkpharm]

My FC last night: 6.2
Left the solar cover off, pump running, heater down to 75 degrees over night

My FC this morning: 5.6
CC: 0.5

Passed the OCULT test!

 

[kimkats]

OH yeah! SWEET! Now are you at the maintain part of enjoying a pool!

Keep it up!

Kim

 

[Jkpharm]

Tried the OCLT the next night (6/9), but failed that one. Finally on 6/10 I decided to start the SLAM process. You can follow that at another thread I have "Here we go with the SLAM."

 

[Patrick_B]

Ok then, good deal. Just Make sure you don't let on it.