I'M having trouble starting a new thread (pool & computer idiot), however, I NEED HELP! I'VE read a lot about AA treatment to remove metal stains & have successfully done so, only to have stains return! My chemistry memory has failed me so I seem to be traveling more by the seat of my pants. It appears I need to be more diligent in lowering my pH to keep the stains from reappearing. Should this be done w muriatic acid? I have SWG system & have read that a "pulp based filter aid" should be used with the AA. Honestly, I have no idea what a pulp based filter aid is, where to get or how to use! HELP! FOR THE LOVE...
Stains stains go away!
- Thread starter big vic
- Start date
Welcome to TFP.
You need to use a sequestrant on a regular basis to keep the stains from redepositing on the pool surface. This is covered here: Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
You need to use a sequestrant on a regular basis to keep the stains from redepositing on the pool surface. This is covered here: Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
Hi, welcome to TFP! The pulp bases filter aid would be something cellulose like Fibre Clear. They are sold as DE alternatives at pool stores.
I tried a sequestrant, albeit before I realized my pH was way to high! Is this going to be such a problem that lowering pH, adding AA & draining would be cheaper/easier? Will those ions stay in the sand & reoccur in spite of draining? I've had this pool 8 yrs & never had an issue until an "unnamed party" took a sample of water to the pool store & subsequently bought & added chemicals!
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Replacing water should remove most of the metal ions in the water, assuming your fill water doesn't have metal in it as well. As for whether that is less expensive, that depends on the cost of water vs. the cost of the AA and ongoing sequestrant.
Chem Geek,
Do I have to do anything to sand after I drain? Assuming fill water good.
Do I have to do anything to sand after I drain? Assuming fill water good.
No. The metal shouldn't be stuck in the sand, at least not as ions. If there's metal oxides in there, then backwashing should remove them.
Another alternative to remove metals from the water is to use CuLator. While the product initially had mixed results on this forum, the latest results worked when working with the company who are very willing to help (iron bacteria needed to be dealt with and chlorine alone was not sufficient for that). The product is not inexpensive so you'd have to weigh its cost with the cost of water replacement vs. the ongoing cost of metal sequestrants. Up to you, but wanted to lay out the alternatives you have available.
Welcome, Big Vic.
I manage metals in my vinyl pool that's on well water. I just want to ask you a few questions to assist you re: staining.
#1 I see you're a new member. Do you have a proper test kit like the ones we reccommend here the TFT100 or the Talor2006 specifically? (These are avail at TFTestkits.net ) Are you following TFP methods and can you post test results?
-- I ask because there are two things that ultimately play into stain management/or properly following AA treatment guidelines...knowing your ph and knowing accurately your FC. You need to be in a position to test each daily and test strips will not be accurate enough. I recently assisted someone who did an AA treatment flying blind and had unintended consequences, so I wanted to check first
#2 What is your source water?
#3 If you drain and refill, are you aware that with a vinyl liner pool you should not drain completely, and that you should leave at least a foot or more in the shallow end, or more if you have a high water table?
#4 You've said you successfully removed the stains previously with AA...what do you think is the source of your metals? Eg, what was added to your pool?
#5 After using the metal sequestrant, did you slam/shock at all for any reason?
The two metal sequestrants recommended here are Jack's Magic and Metal Magic. After treatment, they need to be maintained. Each recommend not shocking/slamming for a full week after application.
Personally, if you're not on well water, sure there are no metals in your fill water, and if water charges are cheap, in your shoes I'd do a partial drain or two to dilute or eliminate the metals. Copper and iron will stain even at low levels, like .3 ppm, but if you keep your ph around 7.2 consistently and maintain sequestrant you should be fine.
Alternately, there is a treatment I tried last year where instead of doing AA, a member named RavenJim did the Metal Magic sponge test and treated with large doses. It worked for me too, and with MM, the mfg wants the ph at 7.5 or higher, so I found it easier than AA. I will go find the link if you want to read it.
- - - Updated - - -
Here it is
Switching Sequestrate from EDTA to HEDP - Page 2
I manage metals in my vinyl pool that's on well water. I just want to ask you a few questions to assist you re: staining.
#1 I see you're a new member. Do you have a proper test kit like the ones we reccommend here the TFT100 or the Talor2006 specifically? (These are avail at TFTestkits.net ) Are you following TFP methods and can you post test results?
-- I ask because there are two things that ultimately play into stain management/or properly following AA treatment guidelines...knowing your ph and knowing accurately your FC. You need to be in a position to test each daily and test strips will not be accurate enough. I recently assisted someone who did an AA treatment flying blind and had unintended consequences, so I wanted to check first
#2 What is your source water?
#3 If you drain and refill, are you aware that with a vinyl liner pool you should not drain completely, and that you should leave at least a foot or more in the shallow end, or more if you have a high water table?
#4 You've said you successfully removed the stains previously with AA...what do you think is the source of your metals? Eg, what was added to your pool?
#5 After using the metal sequestrant, did you slam/shock at all for any reason?
The two metal sequestrants recommended here are Jack's Magic and Metal Magic. After treatment, they need to be maintained. Each recommend not shocking/slamming for a full week after application.
Personally, if you're not on well water, sure there are no metals in your fill water, and if water charges are cheap, in your shoes I'd do a partial drain or two to dilute or eliminate the metals. Copper and iron will stain even at low levels, like .3 ppm, but if you keep your ph around 7.2 consistently and maintain sequestrant you should be fine.
Alternately, there is a treatment I tried last year where instead of doing AA, a member named RavenJim did the Metal Magic sponge test and treated with large doses. It worked for me too, and with MM, the mfg wants the ph at 7.5 or higher, so I found it easier than AA. I will go find the link if you want to read it.
- - - Updated - - -
Here it is
Switching Sequestrate from EDTA to HEDP - Page 2
Chem Geek & Swampwoman
Thank you so much for your input! I will look into Culator, particularly if my current course does not pan out! As far as test kits, my new TFT100 is on its way! I sincerely believe my first attempt, with subsequent lack of clearing was due to not adequately keeping the pH low enough. When it was initially done, the chlorine was low as recommended, but my pH crept higher, I believe causing the reprecipitation of the metals. I did not treat my sand with a "pulp base filter" because I had no idea what it was! I talked to the guy that installed my pool & am aware of the dangers of draining (a 3K liner! ha!) Therefore, I'm back to chemistry! I'm gonna be broke, but am hoping my recent purchases & plan pan out. Muriatic acid to bring pH down, AA, followed by Jack's Magic purple stuff, along with Jack's Magic Filter fiber stuff, followed by bleach & SWG on normal settings to bring Cl back up. Sound right?
As for the chemicals added in the beginning to precipitate my problem, it was pool store recommended "stabilizer, baking soda & balance pack 300". Who knows what all that included! I made the mistake of not being involved & "trusting" all would be as it has for many years with no problems! I very seldom have to add any water, pool was already filled & problems only after chemicals.
Thank you so much for your input! I will look into Culator, particularly if my current course does not pan out! As far as test kits, my new TFT100 is on its way! I sincerely believe my first attempt, with subsequent lack of clearing was due to not adequately keeping the pH low enough. When it was initially done, the chlorine was low as recommended, but my pH crept higher, I believe causing the reprecipitation of the metals. I did not treat my sand with a "pulp base filter" because I had no idea what it was! I talked to the guy that installed my pool & am aware of the dangers of draining (a 3K liner! ha!) Therefore, I'm back to chemistry! I'm gonna be broke, but am hoping my recent purchases & plan pan out. Muriatic acid to bring pH down, AA, followed by Jack's Magic purple stuff, along with Jack's Magic Filter fiber stuff, followed by bleach & SWG on normal settings to bring Cl back up. Sound right?
As for the chemicals added in the beginning to precipitate my problem, it was pool store recommended "stabilizer, baking soda & balance pack 300". Who knows what all that included! I made the mistake of not being involved & "trusting" all would be as it has for many years with no problems! I very seldom have to add any water, pool was already filled & problems only after chemicals.