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Thread: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

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    dmcody's Avatar
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    Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Need some pool advice for a Northern NY pool.

    The direct question is – Will I damage/stain my vinyl pool if I close it with a slight algae problem? Or what will the damage be if I kill the algae but don’t vacuum it out?

    Here is the long story……

    Our pool hasn’t been used since the week after Labor Day weekend, but I have been maintaining the levels just in case. Well about two weeks ago, we decided that fall was definitely here and my wife scheduled the PB to come and close the pool. The fee was $180 to pull the ladder, drain the equipment and put the cover on. I thought it was a bit steep, but since I hadn’t closed my pool before and I didn’t want to freeze any pipes I decided to let them do it. It was originally scheduled for today.

    On Monday I pulled the solar cover off and noticed that there were lots of leaves, some green algae and dirt so I started cleaning up the mess. I guess I didn’t use enough chlorine and the algae took off with a vengeance once the sunlight hit it. I called the PB and canceled the closing yesterday morning and indicated that I would call them back to reschedule once I had a handle on my water.

    I came home for lunch today to find out that low and behold the technician didn’t get the message and showed up this morning while no one was home and started closing the green pool. He pulled the ladder, drained the water (not below the skimmer), installed a plug in the skimmer, winterized the pump/filter/heater, and decided that I would buy 10 new water bags from him. The only thing he didn’t do was put the winter cover on because it wasn’t near the pool, I had just bought a new cover and it was still boxed up in the house. Now I have a winterized pool with an almost resolved algae problem and some leaves in dirt in it.

    Now I figure I have 3 options –
    1. Drain the remaining water, cover the pool and call it a season?

    2. Finish killing the algae using my small pool cover pump to circulate the water throughout the pool, clean it the best I can with just the hand skimmers, cover and call it a season?

    3. Open everything up (Edit - finish killing the algae and cleaning the pool properly) and close it myself.

    Will I damage/stain my vinyl pool if I close it with a slight algae problem? Or what will the damage be if I kill the algae but don’t vacuum it out?

    Current Pool Levels
    CL = 22 ppm
    CC = 0
    TC = 22 ppm
    pH = 7.6
    TA = 80
    CYA = 70

    What is the best thing to do?
    Pool Type/Size: Inground Vinyl ~24,000 gal ~ 18' x 36'
    Filter Type: Pentair FNS Plus 36 - DE Filter
    Pump: Pentair Challenger - 1.5 hp
    Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250K BTU
    Accessories: Hayward AquaRite SWG Controller

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    I'd vote for #1. Stuff is going to get into your pool all winter.

    If you have a Looplok cover, more stuff will be in the pool. Put the cover and skimmer covers on and call it a season. Next spring is 8 months away.
    Hotrod30

    20 X 40 foot vinyl Borates and Salt Pool
    Rolachem Chlorine Feeder
    Hayward 27 inch sand filter with 80 lbs of pea gravel
    Jacuzzi Splash Pak SP55 DE filter in parallel
    Pentair VF3050 pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    If you close the pool with algae you might get some organic staining, but that will clear up fairly quickly after you kill all the algae in the spring. There won't be any permanent damage.

    I would just finish up closing and deal with it in the spring.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    dmcody's Avatar
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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Thanks for thre advice.

    Since I initially posted, the store called me and indicated that the technician put in an algaecide which contains chelating copper.

    Should I still be okay?

    The thing that really burns me is that I just bought two quarts of a poly60 algaecide!!! If stored indoors, will it last for a year?
    Pool Type/Size: Inground Vinyl ~24,000 gal ~ 18' x 36'
    Filter Type: Pentair FNS Plus 36 - DE Filter
    Pump: Pentair Challenger - 1.5 hp
    Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250K BTU
    Accessories: Hayward AquaRite SWG Controller

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Welcome to TFP!!

    The answers so far are good - but you didn't mention option #4 -

    Have them come back and reclose it - they have to come back and put the cover on - have them drain the pool below the skimmer and blow out all the lines, add antifreeze and put the cover on. (they also should remove any debris that entered the pool) ---- all this should be done at no additional cost to you!

    The algae won't harm the liner, but it shouldn't be in the pool when you close - "you can't open clean if you close the pool green"

    I think that you should either close the pool yourself (and NOT pay the pool co) or have them back to do it right!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    I still would put skimmer covers or plates on.

    Like these.



    Hotrod30

    20 X 40 foot vinyl Borates and Salt Pool
    Rolachem Chlorine Feeder
    Hayward 27 inch sand filter with 80 lbs of pea gravel
    Jacuzzi Splash Pak SP55 DE filter in parallel
    Pentair VF3050 pump

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    dont pay them for half a closing. I net out any leaves when I close a pool if it is a reasonable number but will charge additional labor per hour if vaccuming is needed. To give you a reasonale expectation of what a PB should do for a closing our basic closing is a closing only, we come to a clean and balanced pool, add chems, remove ladders, blow out and antifreeze lines, winterize equipment, and put the cover on. We drain to six inches below the skimmer or install aquadors epending on customers preference, but if pumping down and closing the pool takes in excess of an hour, additional labor is charged. We ask all customers without aquadors to pump pools down or purchase aquadors which we install at no extra charge. Then we put the cover on and are finished. We will take filters for acid washing for an additional charge and store till opening. We will also take pumps if asked and change seal etc. over the winter for an additional charge.

    It seems like they have done things a bit differently. I dont know why your skimmer was even plugged without the pool being drained down, they could not have properly winterized that line.
    Matthew
    Involved in the pool and spa industry
    Pittsburgh, PA

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Matt, your company does things the same way mine does - we don't balance the pool, and we charge for leaf removal (but if we didn't get the cover on - any leaves that entered the pool before we got back to put the cover on are removed for free) We will drain the pool down as part of the closing (just so we can properly winterize the plumbing), but the pool is supposed to be clean and balanced before we get there! If we had to clean the pool and balance the water, it'd take 3 callbacks, or more, to do it right and we just don't have the time for that!

    Dmcody - sorry for the 'shop talk' but I thought it may help, not only you, but others that pay to have a pool co. winterize their pool 8)

    **(ASIDE - Matt do y'all degrease the filters you take back first or just acid wash them?) **



    Ted
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    I would close it.

    I would start the pool back up as soon as you are sure it' is not going to freeze and go after the algae then.
    28000 gallon painted plaster
    In pecan grove in mid GA
    Intellichlor SWG
    i try to keep-
    80 PPM CYA
    50PPM borates
    3200-3800 salt
    usually no problems.

    Lots of kids, dogs , wild life in pool...everyone but me.

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Just wondering dmcody, what growing zone do you live in?

    Growing zones:

    http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hzm-ne1.html
    Hotrod30

    20 X 40 foot vinyl Borates and Salt Pool
    Rolachem Chlorine Feeder
    Hayward 27 inch sand filter with 80 lbs of pea gravel
    Jacuzzi Splash Pak SP55 DE filter in parallel
    Pentair VF3050 pump

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    dmcody's Avatar
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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Thanks for the advice. It appears I live in zone 4b - I'm ~ 3 hours north of Syracuse.

    Since the PB added a winter shock, the CL leve is pretty high. I'm letting it come down a bit then I'm going to clean it out, drain to below the skimmer and close it myself.

    I am a bit concerned about the blowing out of the lines. Would a shop vac be able to blow out the lines?
    Pool Type/Size: Inground Vinyl ~24,000 gal ~ 18' x 36'
    Filter Type: Pentair FNS Plus 36 - DE Filter
    Pump: Pentair Challenger - 1.5 hp
    Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250K BTU
    Accessories: Hayward AquaRite SWG Controller

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    A shop vac should be able to any line other than a main drain. If you have a main drain, let us know. Winterizing info is in the link in my sig.

    We'll be here to help you through it !
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    We degrease them for about 12 hours in either a product called aquatone or in TSP then acid wash them. It seems to cut down on how fast our acid goes bad and I have heard that acid washing without degreasing can "burn" the grease in. I have never confirmed this. Its probobly just one of those in house fallacies all organizations fall victim to, but I like that we degrease first so I dont question it. What do you do?
    Matthew
    Involved in the pool and spa industry
    Pittsburgh, PA

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MEvan
    We degrease them for about 12 hours in either a product called aquatone or in TSP then acid wash them. It seems to cut down on how fast our acid goes bad and I have heard that acid washing without degreasing can "burn" the grease in. I have never confirmed this. Its probobly just one of those in house fallacies all organizations fall victim to, but I like that we degrease first so I dont question it. What do you do?

    I don't think so
    fallacies all organizations fall victim to,
    . The only! reason I know this is because of what I've learned here and at PF Like the ladders and handrails with SWCGs - I discovered the SWG / handrail connection 'accidentally' -- The degreasing is something I take on faith from hearing about it here. (the unfortunate thing is that my boss doesn't listen to me - we now install plastic cups with the SWCG pools, but only because the lead man said he wouldn't install the handrails anymore on those pools - even though I informed him of the problem 3 years ago It's the same with the degreasing, I've 'preached' for 2 years now and I can't get the message through

    Sometimes I wonder why I even TRY to help my boss , but then I remember that I like doing pools
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Bad PB - Closes pool with slight Algae problem

    The thing with saltwelding is definatly true, and SWG rep will probobly tell him. Not to mention that there is a whole line of salt water compatible ladders out now. SR SMith makes one. We also sell all PVC handrails that are supposed to be for SWG, although we have never actually sold one because no one ever decided on a proce for them and entered it into the system. Kinda sad and funny at the same time. We have a 3 foot by 3 foot display on the floor for these all PVC handrails and no pricing so no one can sell them. Its been on the floor for 3 months.

    Now i need to say sorry for shop talk!

    sorry
    Matthew
    Involved in the pool and spa industry
    Pittsburgh, PA

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