midtngal's noisy pump

[midtngal]

Well, I didn't want to permanently hijack jbmawhinn's thread so he could get good instructions from Mr. Waste so I have brought this over -

Karen, your motor just misses the harmonic of it running while you're making margaritas and floating around listening to Jimmy

It sounds like the shaft has developed some minor rust and it's a temporary thing when the motor is off for a while (is any water - dew, rain, leaking backwash hose - regularly wetting the motor?) Keeping any water source off of the motor may stay the problem


quote="midtngal"]Oh Waste... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...why didn't I think of that?!?!?! Guess I'd better get to makin' those margaritas!! (discovered mango margaritas this summer...yummy! )

No water regularly getting in the motor. We haven't had rain in a while and I actually have an umbrella over the equipment for at least some protection. Could this really be rusting already??? Interestingly enough, this morning I didn't turn the pump back on until around 11 and it didn't make a peep! It was @75 - 80 by then. Could temperature have something to do with this?? It's usually been around 7 am and high 50s low 60s when I turn it on that it gets cranky. I think I'll check this out in the morning and see if there's still a difference between the times of day and report back. :bowdown:[/quote]

So to add to this dilemma............... this morning at 7 am (temp 59) I went to turn on the pump and it started it's squealing, so I turned it off. I went back out at 10:30 am (temp 70) and turned it on and no squealing! so what in the heck does temperature have to do with whether or not this pump squeals or not???? (as pointed out in my original post...it's only for 30 seconds to a minute, then stops)

 

[waste]

I've been sitting here for ~ 20 minutes 'chewing' on this one, it certainly seems to be temp related. I thought about heat/ cold causing things to expand and contract - could it be the shaft getting seized up ? (drank a beer and realized that it would be opposite - warmer would cause everything to expand, but cooler is when this is happening) Drank another beer... and :!: perhaps its the grease in the bearings that is being 'sluggish' when the temps are down and it warms up enough to properly lubricate the bearings after ~30 seconds when it's cooler and is viscous enough when the temp hits ~70.

That's the best i can come up with but may enable someone more knowledgeable to verify or refute my little theory.

Luv & Luk!
- Ted

 

[midtngal]

Well, I've just come home for lunch and now there does seem to be a small leak all of a sudden! I have been having a heck of a time getting the band back together and getting the motor snug when I've cleaned the impeller. That is where the leak is. Funny that it didn't start leaking until today when Sunday is the last time I cleaned the impeller. Should I use some silicone lube on the rubber O-ring at that closing?? I wonder if maybe this squealing could be air and when the temp is warmer, something expands to stop the air???

Beer, huh??? It's Margaritaville Friday! Wus rong wit chew?? :lol:

Karen

 

[midtngal]

Well, the pump is still making this funny noise -
(I have attempted to upload a 10-sec video with the sound for troubleshooting, but of course I'm doing something wrong!! Is there a secret to it??)

The temp when I turn it on now are in the low 60's and this noise lasts a little longer - 2 1/2 minutes - but then stops and runs normally. Any ideas?? Wonder what will happen when it's in the 40's??!!!

 

[spishex]

I usually run into two things that make a motor squeaky: unstable mounting or bad bearings. In your case I would suspect bearings because the problem goes away after warming up and it is gradually getting worse.

A bad bearing is often accompanied by a lot of scale deposits around the rear of the impeller housing from a slowly leaking seal. Often there's not a visible 'wet' leak until it is too late and too loud. If you want to eliminate any hydraulic possibilities, remove the motor and turn it on by itself to see if it makes the same noise.

It's possible to get bearings replaced but the cost is almost as much as a new motor and seal. How old is the pump?

 

[midtngal]

Well, that's not good!

I did discover that I hadn't tightened the ring around the pump enough therefore the reason for the leak. It has not leaked since I sprayed the O-rings with silicone and tightened it until I couldn't turn it any more.

This pump is only 6 months old! Going back to the PB is out of the question (I had to hold his last installment due to VERY poor business practices).

Okay...let's try this again! This is what it is sounding like.....



I did work with Pentair early on with some other issues. I guess if it does turn out to be the bearings, they would honor the warranty. I can tell you that it very well could be the unstable mounting as well. It is not bolted down in the least!

 

[spishex]

Wow! That sounds creepy. Pentair shouldn't have any problem honoring the warranty on a 6 month old pump. They might require an authorized service center to come out and take a look at it, but maybe not if you send them that clip.

It doesn't have to be bolted down as long as it is not semi-suspended in the air by the plumbing. If pushing down on it a bit doesn't change the noise then that's not the issue.

Just so you have all your bases covered when you call them, take the band off the impeller housing and open the pump up. Make sure there are no screech owls stuck in the impeller and turn it on for a second to see if it makes the same noise without pushing water. Then give them a call.

Don't mention the leak...

 

[midtngal]

I know! It hurts your ears doesn't it?? I plan on opening up the impeller this weekend and make sure it's not chock full of pine needles or something. But, again today when I turned the pump on (it wasn't until around 1 p.m. so it had warmed up some) it didn't make this noise. It seems that when the equipment is cold is when it is making this noise....somehow temperature related. It doesn't seem to be water temperature related since the water has gotten colder as the days go by. The pump isn't semi-suspended...there's a "stand" under it holding it up.

Very bizarre. Not necessarily surprising, but bizarre. I had to get them (Pentair) to send me 3 different filter gauges before I got one that worked! That would be my world! I wouldn't expect there will be any problems with getting this resolved since they were so great then. I told the guy at the time I was keeping his email/phone info as I was more than sure he would be hearing from me again in the future! :lol:

 

[spishex]

They're pretty good about service. I usually default to Pentair equipment for just that reason. That and they're only an hour or so away, so they get home field advantage. :lol:

 

[waste]

Hi Karen, Hi Spisphex !

Spisphex (if you don't mind, I'll refer to you as 'spis' from now on :handshake: )

I'm just wondering if anyone has something to say about my beer induced :idea: on the lube in the bearings?

Karen, if Pentair will warranty the pump, that's the way to go -- get it free


BTW - all you need for Jimmy to come to town is to have them build a Margaritaville cafe at the Grand Ol Oprey He's coming to Mohegan Sun on the 8th to open the cafe there - I hope to score tickets

 

[spishex]

Tim's fine. I wouldn't know how to pronounce 'spis'. spish? Whatever floats your boat, I'll get the drift. :-D

I think your temp/grease relation makes plenty of sense, but we need to take into account the water and/or dirt that has gotten into the bearings to make them make noise in the first place. I spent a little time googling it but haven't come up with anything good.

 

[waste]

Tim, sorry for forgetting your name all these closings are making me a little nutz

Where this post started was here

I really appreciate your input on this site!!!

 

[midtngal]

Hi waste! I would have thought that Nashville giving the man the only 2 awards he's ever won in his life would be enough to bring him here!! :grrrr: He used to have a record company here (Margaritaville Records...imagine that!), but has either moved it or closed it. But...they have closed our outdoor amphitheater so that may be the reason; but we do have a riverfront that will hold around 100K. I would think that would be big enough for him!! I'll just still wait and hope! :lol: :lol:

Now, back to the issue at hand...Ted and Tim...I did spray the O-rings with silicone, but did not grease any bearings. I'm afraid this may be where my "girlie-brain" comes into play...where exactly are they?? I did have a '72 Super Beetle VW so I'm not completely clueless on motors, but that has been a VERY long time ago!

Here's the parts page on my pump -

I don't see anything that resembles bearings. Unless I need to open the motor (??). I would guess that some kind of maintenance would be necessary after all summer of not having a single problem, but if this is unusual...hey, I can go back to Pentair!

I am at ya'lls mercy! :bowdown:

Thanks so much for your knowledgeable advice!

Karen

 

[spishex]

Yeah, the bearings are inside the motor on the front and back end of the shaft, the first thing you'd see if you cracked the plate off the front. I wouldn't go messing with them, especially with the pump under warranty. They're a PITA.

 

[HarryH3]

The bearings are sealed, so you couldn't lube them if you wanted to. They don't require any maintenance. I would just contact Pentair and send them a link to your video. I expect that would have them sending a new pump to you.

That noise could be a bearing or it could be the shaft seal. In either case, it should NOT be happening on such a new unit. 8)

 

[midtngal]

Thanks guys!!

Yeah, I think I will just send this video to my trusty Pentair contact. Even if I could get to the bearings and it would be simple for most folks...it would be a PITA for me! :lol: That's my world...EVERYTHING must be a PITA!!

Thanks again! I'll let ya know what happens!

 

[midtngal]

Well, I have been in touch with Pentair. I sent them the video. Sounds like the motor bearings went out of your pump motor. I can send you a replacement motor for that pump to quiet it down.

He says he's putting it in the mail today! It'll just be a matter of hooking it up correctly, right???

 

[HarryH3]

All is well. 8) Maybe...

Do they also send out the person to install it? Swapping the motor isn't a menial task. The wiring has to be switched over and the impeller has to be switched over.

 

[waste]

Karen, glad they're honoring the warranty :-D

You should have them send a shaft seal assembly - it's not a good idea to try to reuse the old one! also, that could have been the cause of the trouble to begin with.

I can talk you through the motor replacement if you need any help. It's probably a good idea to take a picture of the wiring so that you know you got it right The pic will really help if you have to change the motor from 220 volts to 110.

Hope you get the new motor soon so that the godawful racket stops! :lol:

Luv & Luk

 

[midtngal]

HarryH3, at this point I'll be doing the switching. That doesn't mean I won't call someone if it gets screwy! I do know someone I can call; but since I fired the PB it'll cost me. So, I'll give it a shot and we'll see!

waste, Pentair says they are also sending the seal! That noise is enough to make you cringe isn't it?? It's gotten a little worse. I feel bad for the neighbors when I've had to turn it on at night since it's gotten close to freezing lately. I had thought the same thing about taking pictures as I was looking to see how it all went together. I certainly will ask for assistance from you if I need to!!

As I said above, I'm going to at least give this a shot and we'll see how it goes. I think I can do it. It just might take me longer than someone else, but that's okay! I'm pretty handy at this kinda stuff. I don't pay other people too often to do stuff like this...I'm too cheap!! :lol: