Questions about installing a new EcoStar pump

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C

chinatti

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LifeTime Supporter
May 7, 2014
155
Massachusetts
Hi forum-

I'm going to be replacing my existing Hayward Northstar pump with a new EcoStar model. Currently I have a Jandy Aqualink RS6 control system, but will some time in the hopefully-not-too-distant-future be upgrading that to a new Hayward controller that can control the pump speed, but initially I would like to get the pump swapped out and the EcoStar running with the Jandy controller.

A few questions on this process, as I've been reading the manual a bit to prepare:

1) The EcoStar manual states that:

If the EcoStar pump is being used to replace an existing pump that was controlled by a separate mechanical
time clock, the EcoStar pump should be connected directly to the line power supply, bypassing the time clock.
The time clock can then be used to power other equipment (such as a heater, heat pump, or booster pump) that
requires the filter pump to be operating when used. If the time clock is used in this manner, it should be set to
power the equipment during a time cycle when the EcoStar pump is operating at an appropriate flow rate to
operate the other equipment, as defined by the timers set in the Timer Menu. See section 6.7
​
... and this concerns me because my controller is currently also providing power to the pool heater and salt cell only when power is applied to the pump, which makes sense to me. If I change this and hard-wire the new EcoStar, the controller will not know when it's turned on, and could potentially turn on the heater and/or salt cell when the pump is not on. The manual states that you should make sure that you don't program any of those things when the pump is off / at the minimum flow rate (based on the pump's timer settings), but there's no system interlock to prevent it. My big concern is that the controller loses the current time whenever we have a power glitch - which doesn't happen often but can happen. In that case it might wake up with the wrong time, and turn on the heater and saltgen when the pump is off, which sounds bad to me. Any guidance here?

2) How does one determine the correct RPM / flow rate settings on a variable speed pump? The manual has a chart for maximum flow rate for a given pipe size, but the settings appear to be in RPMs. The AquaRite manual (currently controlling the salt cell) talks about minimum flow, but doesn't give a number. There's a chart at the beginning showing Flow Rate (gpm) vs. Head Loss (FtH20) - but I'm not sure how to interpret it.


Thanks in advance...
 
Please add your location (City, State or City, Country) to your profile and pool details to your signature as described HERE as it will help us help you.

1) Your concerns are valid. One solution is the use of a current sensing relay that would only provide power to the heater and the SWG with the pump is running. Now both the heater and the SWG should have flow/pressure switches that would not allow them to operate when there is no flow, so nothing catastrophic should occur if the timers got out of sync; but, those switches are more meant to be backups.

2) You set your minimum based on what is required for your SWG and/or heater to function. You may want to have a slightly high flow rate for some period of time to help with skimming. Check this out: Determine Pump Run Time
 
jblizzle said:
Please add your location (City, State or City, Country) to your profile and pool details to your signature as described HERE as it will help us help you.
Click to expand...
Done
jblizzle said:
1) Your concerns are valid. One solution is the use of a current sensing relay that would only provide power to the heater and the SWG with the pump is running. Now both the heater and the SWG should have flow/pressure switches that would not allow them to operate when there is no flow, so nothing catastrophic should occur if the timers got out of sync; but, those switches are more meant to be backups.
Click to expand...
Ideally I'd like to avoid adding more complexity for something that is hopefully short-term, but I want to make sure that I'm protected against breaking anything in the worst case. How about either of these ideas:
a) Program the pump to be "on" all the time, at a relatively high RPM, and keep it on the switched AC line like the old pump. I'm obviously losing all the benefit of a variable speed pump (until I get the controller upgraded), but it guarantees that nothing breaks.
b) My guess is that the heater is the thing that I should be most worried about as far as coming on when the pump is off (i.e. if the internal flow detecting safeguards failed). What if I kept the heater off (i.e. manually turn the switch off) unless I manually turn the pump to "ON" (i.e. override its timer), and then that will prevent the pump=off+htr=on scenario. We don't use the heater too often, so this wouldn't be a huge pain (until I can upgrade the panel too).
jblizzle said:
2) You set your minimum based on what is required for your SWG and/or heater to function. You may want to have a slightly high flow rate for some period of time to help with skimming. Check this out: Determine Pump Run Time
Click to expand...
I guess it's not clear to me how to translate the various minimums into RPM settings. Heater says minimum 40GPM, EcoStar says Max 80GPM (for 2" plumbing), AquaRite has a chart with GPM vs "Head Loss" .... and the pump has speed settings in RPMs.
 
a) not sure if that would mess with the internal programing timers in the Ecostar if you were cycling power to it.

b) I would manually control the heater like that.

c) Pick an RPM and see if the heater and SWG work ... it is trial and error.
 
Thanks. As far as the plumbing side goes, here's a picture of what I have. I'm assuming the threaded fittings into the pump will probably not be the same on the NorthStar vs. EcoStar (but maybe I'll get lucky?). Even if they do, the dimensions of the new pump are different and I'll have to do some adjustments. The plumbing up out of the pump into the backwash valve seems like there's little / no room left for cutting and adding a coupling, so I'm guessing I'll have to remove the old pipe from the fitting with heat (i.e. heat gun to soften up the pipe and pull it out with pliers). Is this the best approach? I'll also probably need some pavers or something to raise the new pump up a bit - it looks like the intake is ~1-1.5" lower on the EcoStar vs. the NorthStar. Anything else I'm missing here?

Thanks in advance!

Equipment Pad:

equipment_pad_small.jpg

Side view of pump:

pump_side_small.jpg
 
Got my new pump installed, and it seems to be working. A few questions on the speed settings. From searching threads, it seems like I basically want to set my pump for as low of an RPM as I can get away with.

My old pump (Hayward Northstar) would register ~24PSI on the DE6020 gauge (up to ~34PSI on the gauge when it was in need of a backwash). Before swapping it out for the new pump the gauge was reading ~26 PSI.

Does the PSI matter at all to the DE filter? The DE6020 manual states max 50 PSI, and a "Design Flow Rate" of 120 GPM - but nothing about a minimum PSI. With the new EcoStar pump, here's what I see at the filter gauge with the default RPM settings on the pump:

1000 RPM: 2.5 PSI
1750 RPM: 6 PSI
2500 RPM: 14 PSI
3250 RPM: 22 PSI

Does this seem reasonable? And/or do I need to worry about this? The new plumbing is basically the same as the old (with a few adjustments for pump inlet/outlet locations). I guess I was expecting the EcoStar to be as powerful or more than the old pump at its highest setting, but it looks like it's a bit lower. I believe the pump can go up to 3450 RPMs at its highest setting (not one of the defaults). I have a waterfall that looks best when the pump is running highest speed, so I'll probably bump that one up to 3450RPMs when I turn that on.

And my old PSI range was +10 PSI to the point of backwashing. With the new, lower PSI, should I still look at +10 PSI for the threshold to backwash, or is it a smaller number with the lower PSI? Or should I just use the highest RPM setting to judge the PSI for backwashing?

At 1000 RPM, it looks to me like the skimmer isn't pulling much in. At 1750 (and above) it looks like I'm seeing stuff getting pulled in. So maybe 1750 RPM is a good target setting for me?
 
We always recommend backwashing when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure. Waiting for a 10psi rise is way too long. Just pick a higher RPM to track when to backwash.

There is no minimum pressure.
 
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