Stumped on my Polaris 280... Not climbing walls or going to shallow end

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bbrock

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
848
Livermore, CA
Pool Size
19000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hi TFPers,
Polaris 280 is giving me problems again, but this time I am stumped. I am almost tempted to say after I replaced my Challenger 3/4HP single speed with my current Hayward MaxFlo 1.5HP VSP that that is when problems started occurring. But, I am not sure if I can pinpoint and say the pump change is what started things. The Challenger would operate 3450 RPM, while the MaxFlo can operate up to 3000 RPM, but I don't think that the RPM is the problem b/c even when I have set the MaxFlo to 3000 RPM, my Polaris is still not climbing walls or going to the shallow end. I don't think at difference of 450 RPM is the causative factor.

Here is what I have done so far. I have replace all the wheels and tires, except the idler wheel. My thinking was possibly the wheel teeth were worn or the tires, but this only helped a little. I have the thrust jet straight back as called for, but that is also not helping. I have also fully closed "Adjustment Screw, Sweep Hose B-20" but that has not really helped either.

I am not getting the 28-34 RPM that is called for, but there again I never got that even when I was using the Challenger 3/4HP pump. I think at best I was getting 28-30, maybe. I have noticed that water is leaking at the wall from the "UWF Connector Assembly 9-100-9001" so I am thinking of replacing that. Maybe that would help?

I have thought to get a total rebuild kit, but that would not let me know what the cause was. If I replace everything at once and it works fine, I won't know what caused this. So, this is not really the option I would prefer. Not to mention, from my calculations, there is not enough of a price difference between buying the rebuild kit and buying the parts one at a time. Thus, I will buy the parst as needed.

Other ideas I have learned from TFP and here (http://www.epoolshop.com/polaris_280_Troubleshooting.aspx) are that it could be the head float, the idler wheel, Swing Axle Kit C-36, or who else knows what. I am stumped and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Tx.
 
Not sure if this will help but I was having the same kind of problem with my 280 and I swore it was a pressure problem with the pump. I went as far as changing the pumps impeller but it didn't help. It turned out to be a small pebble stuck in the internal pressure tube. The one that shoots water pressure at the internal impeller of the 280. It had just enough pressure to kinda work but not very good. After I cleaned the pressure ports it ran great. Might be worth a shot.
 
I had a similar problem last year, but replacing almost all the moving parts fixed it for me. All the wheels, since the gears on the inside were worn, and the impeller for the same reason. I was tempted to replace the idler wheel, since its treads were worn, but I did not and it still does the job. The new rubber tires made a difference also. Of course all the bearings since they always seem to explode when trying to put them in a new wheel.

If you wall socket jack is leaking around the pressure relief, you can unscrew the spring thing and screw in a 1" pvc plug, I did that years ago after it broke and it works perfectly. You can also try unscrewing the wall jack receiver and change the disk out for a larger one, allow more water to get to the polaris, that may increase your RPMs.

http://www.poolsupplysales.com/part...280-parts/uwf-restrictor-disks-10-112-00.html
 
Tx Skinnywater and Crabboy. Skinnywater, just to clarify, you are saying that you replaced your pool pump impeller, right? In a way that was done b/c I did go from whatever impeller was in the Challenger 3/4HP high head pump to my current Hayward MaxFlo 1.5HP VSP medium head. It would suck to know that all this could be the result of switching to a new medium head VSP, but I just don't think that could be it. I have a feeling I could use a Polaris 280 with the Hayward MaxFlo 1.5HP VSP and not have problems.

Where is the internal pressure tube? Here is a parts diagram of the 280: http://www.epoolshop.com/polaris_280_pool_cleaner_parts.aspx?variation=7949

I don't know what part you are referring to. Not to mention, I didn't know there was an internal impeller. Where is that part/part #?

Crabboy, you replaced the impeller? Same question as above, I didn't know there was an internal impeller. Where is that part/part #?

What position is your thrust jet? Straight back? Or, do you have it angled a different way?
 
Tx for the link Crabboy. Just went out to the pool and removed the Quick Disconnect, UWF - D29. Dipped my head in and I see that the red disk is in place. Per that link Crabboy, it states "If you find that the count is less than 28 RPM then do not install a restrictor disk. This will allow maximum pressure to the cleaner." Yesterday, I played around with the RPMs of my MaxFlo VSP to determine if there would be any drastic difference in the RPM of the Polaris. I found that the Polaris gets about 21-23 RPM when I have my MaxFlo VSP running at 1800 - 3000 RPM. So, let's say I get about 22 RPM. I did not test it with my pump below 1800 RPM.

How do I remove the red disk? Do I have to remove the UWF? I am thinking I have to.
 
I am trying to remove the UWF, but it is breaking apart. How do I get the threaded part of the UWF out of the pool wall? What I thought was a small project now gets big; that is just how it goes.
 
Have you checked your backup valve? I had a problem with my 380 not functioning like it should (always getting stuck, tangled, not climbing the walls, not making it out of the deep end, etc.). I replaced a ton of parts trying to figure out what it was. Finally, I noticed that my backup valve had a slight but steady stream of pressuring coming out even when it wasn't activated. I replaced the backup valve and all of my problems stopped. I think the constant reverse pressure was causing everything else to get thrown off.
 
I've had a polaris for 16 years and have had the problem you describe on three occasions. Once it turned out to be the relief valve in the wall fitting. It was leaking too much water. I called polaris and they sent me a new valve, but it leaked as much as the first one. I ended up removing the valve and replacing it with a plug. That cured the problem and the plug is still installed.

The next time the problem was a leaking swivel. Guess it just wore out and started leaking. I replaced the swivel and that fixed the problem.

The last time was caused by a small crack in the backup valve housing. The crack was letting enough water leak by to interfere with the operation.

So every time I've had a problem with the polaris not performing like it should there has been a leak some where in the system. The leak from the swivel was not very large, but it sure made a big difference in the operation. Same with the relief valve. I could put my hand around the valve and feel just a little water getting out but that was enough to make the polaris act funky.

So my guess is you have a water leak in the system some where.
 
I appreciate all the great feedback. Thanks!

Yes, turns out it was leaks. I replaced the universal wall fitting. It took some serious time b/c it was brittle and had to be sawed off by just using my hacksaw blade and chipped away with a flathead screwdriver. Not much fun and hard on the back leaning over the pool edge and working away at it. But got that sucker off. Dug into the wall threads just a little with the hacksaw, but the new UWF was able to thread in okay. The reason I changed it was b/c I leaned down into the water and noticed that I had a red restrictor disc in place. The former owner or someone must have placed it on their. Even with my old Pentair 3/4HP Challenger pump my RPM was never more than probably 22. I had read to use either the blue restrictor disc or no disc if the RPMs is not sufficient. I put the new one on w/out a restrictor disc and was having problems b/c the Quick Disconnect kept blowing off the wall. After some time, I realized I was not applying enough pressure to get the Quick Disconnect connected properly. Once I did that, then crazy water pressure was coming out the Pressure Relief valve. I was already prepared for that though b/c after I bought the UWF, I then went to Lowes for a PVC plug (as read here at TFP). I switched out the Pressure Relief valve w/ the plug, and voila, my polaris was going through the pool like crazy. I checked the RPM and, if I recall right, I think it was 36. The thing was climbing up walls like I had never seen. Running everywhere. I was worried it was going too fast as the Polaris recommends 28-32 (or maybe it was 34), but it is still pickup up debris. I am going to keep me eye on it and if it seems to not clean sufficiently, I will get a blue restrictor disc and see if that does anything.

I definitely think my problems were related to a leaking UWF and the red restrictor disc. With my new Hayward MaxFlo VS, I think those problems were just too much, whereas maybe my old Pentair 3/4HP Challenger single speed was able to get by.

FWIW, when I picked up the UWF from the pool store, I also got a new swivel b/c one of mine was leaking a little. I don't know if the RPM or performance would have been different had I left the old swivel with the small leak, but I'm glad that you stev32k that you mentioned what you did above and I replaced it anyway. Come to think of it, I think it was a thread by you stev32k where I learned of the PVC plug idea. So, thanks amigo!

One thing for sure is that every year I am going to replace the UWF. I added it to my calendar as a recurring yearly event. That thing was such a PITA to remove since it was so old. I would rather pay $5/yr for the part for peace of mind to be able to take off and unscrew the UWF w/ channel lock pliers vs. to have to cut away at it w/ a hacksaw and risk damaging the threads. That was no fun. I highly recommend other people consider doing this to prevent from getting in the situation I was.

Lastly, I tried the new UWF with the red restrictor disc, and I again started having the same problems with poor climbing, not going through the whole pool, and circling. Thus, I can say now that water flow/pressure is key to consider before replacing other parts. I really believe that my Polaris would have probably run fine had I replaced the UWF, swivel, and swapped out the Pressure Relief valve w/ a plug, and had left on the old tires and wheels. Good learning experience.
 

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Now more problems. I didn't mention that in this whole battle with my Polaris, I accidentally had the Polaris booster pump on a few times without the pool pump. This ending my causing a leak at the shaft seal and when I got it apart, I saw my shaft seal have cracked in two pieces from the heat/running dry. I ended replacing the mech. shaft seal on the Polaris booster pump, which came out ok.

It gets better though. This AM, I saw my Polaris had gotten tangled in my cover, again (this is the 2nd time; pic to follow). It gets caught in the cover on the two-wheel side. The cover gets wrapped around some of the rear tire/wheel. I unscrew the rear wheel, lower the small wheel, remove the rear wheel, and the cover comes loose. This is a PITA. The first time the Polaris thruster jet was shooting water all over the deck. I can't have it like this and feel comfortable with it on when no one is here. So, I am thinking the remedy could be the blue restrictor disc. I think my RPMs are just too much. Remember, I replaced the Pressure Relief Valve with a PVC plug. Also, remember that with the red restrictor disc, my Polaris was not performing well either, even with the PVC plug in place vs. the Pressure Relief Valve.

Any thoughts on how to keep it from getting caught on the cover, and my theory of using the blue restrictor disc to decrease RPM? My last resort, albeit expensive, is to abandon the Polaris and go to The Pool Cleaner.

Lastly, it even gets better. This AM I was on an important call when the Polaris got caught. I ran out to turn off the pool pump as I figured I would get out there soon enough to untangle it. Well, 2 hrs later on the phone, it was now time for the Polaris to kick on. So, it was on again, probably 20 mins, without the main pump on. After assessing it, it is okay, no leak, but I already here a very faint difference in its sound that I know is related to this. So, I ran it dry yet again. Thus, I will be having to replace the mech. shaft seal that much sooner. Good times.

17224144290_07f3f4406e.jpg


17224130310_bbb1c41ca3.jpg
 
Just got off phone w/ Polaris. The rep. said he has not heard of this happening too much, but he recommended laying the hose out on the pool deck for 3-4 hrs to get rid of any "memory" in the hose and straighten it out, adjust the thrust jet to 11 o'clock, and trying the blue restrictor disc.
 
But, this website http://www.ehow.com/how_7833744_adjust-thrust-jet-polaris.html) shows that the optimal position is the 7 o'clock position. I assume that the 7 vs. 11 o'clock position would allow it to "hug the ground" better. With no restrictor disc in place, the issue is not climbing walls, rather getting it to hug the ground or stay rooted to it as it climbs the walls. I think if I change the thrust jet position the 7 o'clock position would be better.
 
Interesting thread. My 280 worked great last year, but was really giving me a hard time at the end of the season, and so far this season. I double checked everything and realized I had the wrong length leader hose, and a swivel right behind the backup valve. Those weren't helping. I also added two more floats to the hose, having them all about 30" apart. I did let the hose sit on the pool deck in the heat for a couple of days, but I'm not convinced it helped. Anyway, the thing works great again. Double check the hose is all right. Leader hose section equal to max depth of pool, a swivel in the middle, and a swivel near the wall, and floats in the right places...

I have a question on the thrust adjustment though. When the instructions talk about 11 0'clock or 7 o'clock, do you push it fully into that position until it stops, or just towards that setting, just off dead straight center?
 
bbrock said:
I appreciate all the great feedback. Thanks!

Yes, turns out it was leaks. I replaced the universal wall fitting. It took some serious time b/c it was brittle and had to be sawed off by just using my hacksaw blade and chipped away with a flathead screwdriver. Not much fun and hard on the back leaning over the pool edge and working away at it. But got that sucker off. Dug into the wall threads just a little with the hacksaw, but the new UWF was able to thread in okay. The reason I changed it was b/c I leaned down into the water and noticed that I had a red restrictor disc in place. The former owner or someone must have placed it on their. Even with my old Pentair 3/4HP Challenger pump my RPM was never more than probably 22. I had read to use either the blue restrictor disc or no disc if the RPMs is not sufficient. I put the new one on w/out a restrictor disc and was having problems b/c the Quick Disconnect kept blowing off the wall. After some time, I realized I was not applying enough pressure to get the Quick Disconnect connected properly. Once I did that, then crazy water pressure was coming out the Pressure Relief valve. I was already prepared for that though b/c after I bought the UWF, I then went to Lowes for a PVC plug (as read here at TFP). I switched out the Pressure Relief valve w/ the plug, and voila, my polaris was going through the pool like crazy. I checked the RPM and, if I recall right, I think it was 36. The thing was climbing up walls like I had never seen. Running everywhere. I was worried it was going too fast as the Polaris recommends 28-32 (or maybe it was 34), but it is still pickup up debris. I am going to keep me eye on it and if it seems to not clean sufficiently, I will get a blue restrictor disc and see if that does anything.

I definitely think my problems were related to a leaking UWF and the red restrictor disc. With my new Hayward MaxFlo VS, I think those problems were just too much, whereas maybe my old Pentair 3/4HP Challenger single speed was able to get by.

FWIW, when I picked up the UWF from the pool store, I also got a new swivel b/c one of mine was leaking a little. I don't know if the RPM or performance would have been different had I left the old swivel with the small leak, but I'm glad that you stev32k that you mentioned what you did above and I replaced it anyway. Come to think of it, I think it was a thread by you stev32k where I learned of the PVC plug idea. So, thanks amigo!

One thing for sure is that every year I am going to replace the UWF. I added it to my calendar as a recurring yearly event. That thing was such a PITA to remove since it was so old. I would rather pay $5/yr for the part for peace of mind to be able to take off and unscrew the UWF w/ channel lock pliers vs. to have to cut away at it w/ a hacksaw and risk damaging the threads. That was no fun. I highly recommend other people consider doing this to prevent from getting in the situation I was.

Lastly, I tried the new UWF with the red restrictor disc, and I again started having the same problems with poor climbing, not going through the whole pool, and circling. Thus, I can say now that water flow/pressure is key to consider before replacing other parts. I really believe that my Polaris would have probably run fine had I replaced the UWF, swivel, and swapped out the Pressure Relief valve w/ a plug, and had left on the old tires and wheels. Good learning experience.
Click to expand...

I've only had to replace the UWF once in 11 years. However, I make sure not to over tighten it and I remove it at closing every year. Doing this it's never seized up on me.

That said, your plan to replace it every year certainly won't hurt anything and is cheap insurance. :)

bbrock said:
Just got off phone w/ Polaris. The rep. said he has heard of this happening too much, but he recommended laying the hose out on the pool deck for 3-4 hrs to get rid of any "memory" in the hose and straighten it out, adjust the thrust jet to 11 o'clock, and trying the blue restrictor disc.
Click to expand...

bbrock said:
But, this website http://www.ehow.com/how_7833744_adjust-thrust-jet-polaris.html) shows that the optimal position is the 7 o'clock position. I assume that the 7 vs. 11 o'clock position would allow it to "hug the ground" better. With no restrictor disc in place, the issue is not climbing walls, rather getting it to hug the ground or stay rooted to it as it climbs the walls. I think if I change the thrust jet position the 7 o'clock position would be better.
Click to expand...

steveg_nh said:
Interesting thread. My 280 worked great last year, but was really giving me a hard time at the end of the season, and so far this season. I double checked everything and realized I had the wrong length leader hose, and a swivel right behind the backup valve. Those weren't helping. I also added two more floats to the hose, having them all about 30" apart. I did let the hose sit on the pool deck in the heat for a couple of days, but I'm not convinced it helped. Anyway, the thing works great again. Double check the hose is all right. Leader hose section equal to max depth of pool, a swivel in the middle, and a swivel near the wall, and floats in the right places...

I have a question on the thrust adjustment though. When the instructions talk about 11 0'clock or 7 o'clock, do you push it fully into that position until it stops, or just towards that setting, just off dead straight center?
Click to expand...

I'm having a hard time picturing all these thruster jet positions......pics/visuals would be greatly appreciated by us visual types. ;) :D
 
I'm one of those idiots that bought the specialty tool to remove it, but honestly I HATE seeing anyway use huge pliers on fittings. It works quite well though. I use rubber strap wrenches on my unions too... :D
 
So, yesterday, after experimenting for quite some time with the thrust jet oriented in different positions according to the hands of a clock, I settled on using slightly off 6 o'clock; probably 7 o'clock direction. I also tried it fully pushed in that direction and just slightly pushed that way. I found it works best having it pushed all the way in that 7 o'clock direction. My polaris is better rooted to the ground, doesn't climb the walls that much at all anymore, and seems to perform well. I tried a little more clockwise than 7 o'clock, but it would turn left too much.

Also, since I didn't have the blue restrictor disc on hand, I tried drilling out the hole in the red disc a little bigger. Remember, I said that w/no restrictor disc, and a PVC plug in lieu of the pressure relief valve, I was getting about 36 RPM. Well, I guess I used too big of a drill bit (3/8") and took off too much b/c when I put it in and then counted my RPM, I was still getting 36. So, I think I need to try the blue disc. I see them cheap enough at Amazon ($4 approx.). I do think that 36 RPM is just a little too much.

Overall, I am really not too pleased w/ the Polaris b/c even though it is performing better, and I have the thrust jet positioned just right that it still makes random moves in the pool, it just seems that it misses areas. I'm thinking if I slow it, perhaps that would help.

Also, I put on pipe tape on the threads of the UWF, but I don't know if it will help any. But, I did figure it couldn't hurt any.

Lastly, I already have my eyes on The Pool Cleaner as a replacement for this Polaris. I have just about had it with this thing. It is great when it works, but a pain and a mystery to figure out the times it is not. Not sure if the grass is greener, but it seems like a lot of the "experts" here (Jbizzle, Mas985, ChemGeek) have The Pool Cleaner, so that tells me something.
 

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