friend said: "the bleach threw the alkaloids through the roof. Tomarrow the acid to kill the bi carb cloud.
Any idea what he's talking about? alkaloids?
Any idea what he's talking about? alkaloids?
friend said: "the bleach threw the alkaloids through the roof." huh?
- Thread starter GuinnessPhish
- Start date
There is a story that gunite/plaster pools leach alkaloids into the water, which doesn't really fit and isn't true anyway.
Bleach is often blamed for raising the TDS level, which is just as true of all other forms of chlorine.
All I can imagine is some kind of blending of these two myths.
Bleach is often blamed for raising the TDS level, which is just as true of all other forms of chlorine.
All I can imagine is some kind of blending of these two myths.
I asked him: "Alkaloids? what are you referring to? how do you test the level of alkaloids?"
his response:
"Simple titration or dip strip. Alkiloids are bicarbs. When chlorine is in a solution, it binds to organics and forms hyopcloris acid(i'm butchering the spellings). As the hypocloris acid rises in solution, large amounts of chlorine is needed to break down the hypo chloris acid. Part of that reaction produces positive hydrogen ions. They react with the sodium and carbon in the water and form ni carb. I put a huge amount of sodiun hypochloride in water that was full of organics and now its cloudy because the level of bicarb is through the roof."
anyone?
his response:
"Simple titration or dip strip. Alkiloids are bicarbs. When chlorine is in a solution, it binds to organics and forms hyopcloris acid(i'm butchering the spellings). As the hypocloris acid rises in solution, large amounts of chlorine is needed to break down the hypo chloris acid. Part of that reaction produces positive hydrogen ions. They react with the sodium and carbon in the water and form ni carb. I put a huge amount of sodiun hypochloride in water that was full of organics and now its cloudy because the level of bicarb is through the roof."
anyone?
Back to Jason's original statement, Total nonsense.
If he is a good friend, talk to him about anything but pool care. You can change the subject by taking him down to Jimmy's Tavern in old town Herndon.
If he is a good friend, talk to him about anything but pool care. You can change the subject by taking him down to Jimmy's Tavern in old town Herndon.
Well, half of each sentence is correct this time. Nothing here actually makes sense, but there are numerous sentence fragments that are taken from the actual chemistry.
Alkaloids have nothing at all to do with bicarb.
All forms of chlorine in solution form hypochlorous acid, which is the chemical name for the disinfecting form of chlorine.
Positive hydrogen ions are always present in the water. They are not created by these reactions.
Hypochlorous acid bind to organics and for combined chlorines (there are several types). Additional chlorine binds with combined chlorine to break it down further. Again this is true for all forms of chlorine.
Sodium and carbon don't directly participate in these reactions, though they may be a part of the organic material that is reacting, or may simply be present in the water.
These reactions end up producing mostly water, salt, and nitrogen gas. Bicarb is not involved, either as a reactant or as a product.
Generally, if you "put a huge amount of sodium hypochloride in water that was full of organics" the water will clear up. However there are some (rare) situations where the water could cloud up, though this has nothing at all to do with bicarb. The most likely route for clouding up would happen because bleach is basic, i.e. raises the PH, and then lowers the PH as it breaks down. It is possible for that short period of high PH to cause calcium clouding.
Alkaloids have nothing at all to do with bicarb.
All forms of chlorine in solution form hypochlorous acid, which is the chemical name for the disinfecting form of chlorine.
Positive hydrogen ions are always present in the water. They are not created by these reactions.
Hypochlorous acid bind to organics and for combined chlorines (there are several types). Additional chlorine binds with combined chlorine to break it down further. Again this is true for all forms of chlorine.
Sodium and carbon don't directly participate in these reactions, though they may be a part of the organic material that is reacting, or may simply be present in the water.
These reactions end up producing mostly water, salt, and nitrogen gas. Bicarb is not involved, either as a reactant or as a product.
Generally, if you "put a huge amount of sodium hypochloride in water that was full of organics" the water will clear up. However there are some (rare) situations where the water could cloud up, though this has nothing at all to do with bicarb. The most likely route for clouding up would happen because bleach is basic, i.e. raises the PH, and then lowers the PH as it breaks down. It is possible for that short period of high PH to cause calcium clouding.
more from friend:
"Before I started, the bicarb levels were 40 ppm. I just tested it, i'm at about 190 and probably going to go higher. Bicarb cloud"
"Already slammed it with enough to reach break point in a 30,000 gallon pool. I was only treating 2000 gallons. 1/4 gallon muariatic tomarrow and the pool wil be balanced for swimming by noon"
"Before I started, the bicarb levels were 40 ppm. I just tested it, i'm at about 190 and probably going to go higher. Bicarb cloud"
"Already slammed it with enough to reach break point in a 30,000 gallon pool. I was only treating 2000 gallons. 1/4 gallon muariatic tomarrow and the pool wil be balanced for swimming by noon"
Just nonsense. Stop listening, though perhaps you might pretend to listen if you want to appear polite.
my friend works at a pool store.
"I am going to be opening and closing close to 1500 pools this season as well as making about 3000 weekly stops. I don't do the actual labor but my 16 techs follow my recepies to the letter."
"I am going to be opening and closing close to 1500 pools this season as well as making about 3000 weekly stops. I don't do the actual labor but my 16 techs follow my recepies to the letter."
"you want me to post the link that says smoking cigeretts is healthy.... The water tempreture is about 55 degrees nlt to mention its only reading about 20 ppm. Its too cold for any calcium to drop out and make a cloud. Ph is dictated by alkalinity. Starting with rain water (no calcium in that) and only adding bleach to the water, I got an increase of over 150 ppm of bicarb in the water. The only thing that could have raised it was the liquid chlorine"
Your ability to keep from rubbing your eyebrows off while listening to this dribble will be increased exponentially by the percentage of alcohol content of the adult beverage you hold and your use of a straw to consume said beverage.
Phish, if you want to have some fun, ask him if he's using test strips
Or, ask him how much time he's been spending with his head too close to the open muriatic acid jug!
- Dec 23, 2014
- 163
- Pool Size
- 14000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
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