Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Hi,

    My wife and I had this pool built in our back yard over one year ago. It was a dream of ours for more than 10 years.

    We have enjoyed the pool since it was put in, but, it has not been without problems. I now wish to get involved as the two pool guys that I have dealt with do not clearly understand what is happening. I have ordered a TF100 water test kit. Hopefully this kit will help in identifying some of my problems. I will post the results on this site.

    My pool has a "Pebbletek" surface and uses a SWG. I know the PH always seems to run high at 7.5-7.8 and I have never seen in lower than 7.5. I have a spill over waterfall from my spa and have had calcium accumulations almost since the pool was new. I am very tired of cleaning these deposits as it is hard work. The pool guys sure will not do it. My SWG generator has clogged up three times with calcium. I have cleaned this also. This is has been very frustrating.

    I have not made a list my equipment yet. That is forthcoming. I need to know how large or the volume of my pool. It is 17 feet wide at its widest point and 33 feet long. The deep end it 6.5 feet and the shallow is 3.5 feet.

    I have attached a photo of my pool.

    Thanks,

    Michel
    Attached Images Attached Images
    17,000 gal IG Genuine Pebble Sheen "Ocean Blue" with waterfall dam from spa
    All pool equipment is Pentair brand:
    MasterTemp 400k BTU gas heater
    Intellichlor SWG
    FNS plus 60 DE filter
    Whisperflow 1 HP circulation pump
    Whisperflow 2 HP spa jets pump

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,409

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Good Morning, Michel,

    Nice pool. As a starting point, I would say your pool is about 15,000-17,000 gallons. Your PB may know exactly (be sure to check with him) but that estimate will get you started.

    The calcium issue may be tough to deal with. The only way to get calcium from the water is to drain some of your pool and refill with water not so high in calcium. Let's wait and see just how high it is before deciding how to tackle it. It may be that better pH control can minimize it.

    Post up the size of your pump, size and what type of filter you have....that's the most important for now.

    I think a good plan is to get your other parameters in line and stabilized first (that won't take long) and then tackle the calcium issue. You'll get lot's of help here on the forum.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central New York
    Posts
    504

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Welcome Michel. I can't say anything more than what duraleigh has already posted. It's hard to say anything without knowing where you are in your test readings.

    You ordered a great test kit so when it comes (he ships fast), we'll be ready.

    Only other question I have is what is your water source for filling the pool; city water, well, trucked in water?
    Hotrod30

    20 X 40 foot vinyl Borates and Salt Pool
    Rolachem Chlorine Feeder
    Hayward 27 inch sand filter with 80 lbs of pea gravel
    Jacuzzi Splash Pak SP55 DE filter in parallel
    Pentair VF3050 pump

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Please help me with my pool! I now have data.

    Merged posts: Butterfly

    Hi,

    Below has been cut and pasted from introduction forum. See Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    My wife and I had this pool built in our back yard over one year ago. It was a dream of ours for more than 10 years.
    I have a spill over waterfall from my spa and have had calcium accumulations almost since the pool was new. I am very tired of cleaning these deposits as it is hard work. My SWG generator has clogged up three times with calcium. This is has been very frustrating. All this elbow grease...this can't be right

    I ordered a TF100 test kit and did all the tests tonight.

    Here are the results.

    CL = 3
    PH = 7.6
    CC = 5 (I did not read the entire procedure last night. FC= 5 and CC should be 0)
    TA = 330 (I think I made an error with this one as the next day's reading were 150)
    CH = 450
    CYA less than 15 (can always see black dot with tube full up)

    What should be my next step?


    ALSO, my pool heater has a problem. It heats the spa water fine to about 95 degrees, then the heater stops heating and cycles on then off for a few minutes at a time until it reached 102 (set limit). This takes much longer than usual to heat up the spa. The water also does not feel like it is 102?? The SERVICE HEATER light and the HLS led (under the control panel) turn ON when the heater shuts off, then resets themselves when the heater turns on again. I am thinking the high temp level sensor may be bad. Is this a common part that fails.

    Any help appreciated,

    Michel
    17,000 gal IG Genuine Pebble Sheen "Ocean Blue" with waterfall dam from spa
    All pool equipment is Pentair brand:
    MasterTemp 400k BTU gas heater
    Intellichlor SWG
    FNS plus 60 DE filter
    Whisperflow 1 HP circulation pump
    Whisperflow 2 HP spa jets pump

  5. Back To Top    #5

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,409

    Re: Please help me with my pool! I now have data.

    Michel,

    So we can all follow your "story", please keep all the info in one thread. I'll respond in the other thread and you can delete your post above.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,409

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Michel,

    Let's solve your issues one at a time...starting with pool water chemistry.

    1. You need to shock your pool with chlorine. Shocking is a process that may take a few days.....it won't happen with one application of chlorine. Go up into "Pool School" and read all the articles to help refresh your pool chemistry knowledge....in particular..."Shocking your Pool"

    2. Please redo the TA test. There have been several reported false high readings due to static electricity. This time, wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth or paper towel in between each drop of the R-0009 and see if you don't get larger drops (and a subsequent lower TA result). Post that result and we'll see if it needs to be lowered and suggest some other corrections as well.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Hi,

    I did all the TF100 tests again this morning without the 9 year old. These were performed three times except the CYA which I repeated only once.

    Here are the new results:

    PH = 7.6
    CL = 3
    FC = 3.5 (7 drops)
    CC = 0 (solution stays clear)
    TA = 150
    CH = 440
    CYA less than 15 (I can always see black dot with tube full up)

    There is a big difference in the TA levels measured last night and this morning. I am guessing the 9 year old messed me up. I made an error in measurement of the CC.

    Now that my measurement of CC = 0, I am thinking that shocking the pool in not needed.

    I measured the water coming into my house to have a CH of 300. The water out of my water softener measured with a CH of 10 to 20.

    The lack of CYA bothers me. Not quite sure how to go about improving on this.

    What's next?

    Michel
    17,000 gal IG Genuine Pebble Sheen "Ocean Blue" with waterfall dam from spa
    All pool equipment is Pentair brand:
    MasterTemp 400k BTU gas heater
    Intellichlor SWG
    FNS plus 60 DE filter
    Whisperflow 1 HP circulation pump
    Whisperflow 2 HP spa jets pump

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,409

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Next, I would increase the CYA in your pool by purchasing 8 lbs of CYA (stabilizer) at any Lowe's/HD/or pool store.

    That should give you about 60ppm which is about the lowest you should have with the SWG.

    It'll take about a week to dissolve and you'll find you'll have to turn down your SWG to keep your FC in the 3-4 range. That'll save some wear and tear on your SWG and properly protect the chlorine it's producing.

    At the same time, keep muriatic acid on hand and lower your pH down to around 7.2. It will normally continue to rise slowly so check it often and keep it lowered to around 7.2. This should help with the scaling you've experienced.

    I'd do two other things but I'd consider them a little "advanced" and suggest you accomplish the two above first. When they're done, you may want to lower your Alk a little and lower your CH by replacing some of your pool water with softened water. Both those will continue to help, but maybe not eliminate, the scaling you are experiencing.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Thanks ,

    I will get some of that CYA stuff and keep you posted. I will also have some muriatic acid on hand. Can I get the acid at Lowes also.

    What about using a sequestering agent such as Super Sequa-Sol or HydroQuest 100...or am i getting ahead too much?

    I just finished plumbing my softened water as the source for my pool's auto fill valve. That should start helping.

    There is still my heater issue? Should this be posted somewhere else?

    Thanks,

    Michel
    17,000 gal IG Genuine Pebble Sheen "Ocean Blue" with waterfall dam from spa
    All pool equipment is Pentair brand:
    MasterTemp 400k BTU gas heater
    Intellichlor SWG
    FNS plus 60 DE filter
    Whisperflow 1 HP circulation pump
    Whisperflow 2 HP spa jets pump

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,409

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Muriatic is usually available in the paint section at Lowes.

    Why do you want sequestrant? Your water looks pretty clear in the pic. Is it not?

    I can not help with the heater...I would suggest a seperate post in the "Swimming Pool equipment" section
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    144

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    I would recommend that you lower your calcium to below 250. You should maintain a Saturation Index of about -0.3 for about a week or so to allow the scale to dissolve. Once the scale is gone maintain a -0.2 to 0.0 S.I. The heater problems are probably being caused by scale. Lowering the saturation index to about -0.3 may help descale it, but most likely the heat exchanger and headers will need to be disassembled and cleaned. The heater should not be operated until it is cleaned. A stain and scale control chemical would also help.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    I suspect the heater is hitting it's high temperature limit shutoff. That could be a problem with the heater, or insufficient water flow, or related to the calcium scaling.

    A sequestrant designed to help prevent calcium scaling could help keep things under control, but it isn't a good long term solution.

    duraleigh has suggested some great things to start with. When you have some of those things under control we can make some more suggestions on ways to get the scaling under control (lower TA).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Hi again,
    Here are the new results:
    PH = 7.7
    CL = 3
    FC = 3
    CC = 0 (solution stays clear)
    TA = 160
    CH = 350
    CYA = 42

    Since Sept 13, I added a half bag of CYA -stabiliser, and 4 cups of acid on two occasions. After adding the acid the PH was measured at 7.2 on the following morning. It tends to always drift upwards. Is this normal? Why?

    I have also added about 1000 gallons ( my daughter figured this out) of soft water. This is probably what caused the CH to drop from 440 to 350.

    The water is quite clear and the pool is in use every weekend. There also seems to be an accumulation of DE earth (I think) on the bottom of the pool so I need to vaccum on Friday evenings to have the pool look perfect for Sat. Is this normal for DE systems?

    Calcium accumulations at the waterfall seems to have decreased, but, it is still happening. I purchased some Scaletec Plus, but, am not convinced it will do any good. Any suggestions?

    Should I be starting another thread now?

    Thanks

    Michel
    17,000 gal IG Genuine Pebble Sheen "Ocean Blue" with waterfall dam from spa
    All pool equipment is Pentair brand:
    MasterTemp 400k BTU gas heater
    Intellichlor SWG
    FNS plus 60 DE filter
    Whisperflow 1 HP circulation pump
    Whisperflow 2 HP spa jets pump

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Hi from LA, hope you can all help me out

    Staying in your existing topic is probably best, though you could have started a new topic if you really wanted to.

    Your TA is high. This is causing the PH to drift up more quickly than it would otherwise. I suggest lowering TA to around 80. This article at Pool School explains how to lower TA. That will also help reduce the risk of calcium scaling.

    Your CYA is low. I suggest raising CYA to at least 60, preferably 70 to 80. This will help the FC level be more stable, allow you to reduce the percentage on your SWG, increase the SWG cell life, and reduce the PH drift.

    Some upwards PH drift is very common with a SWG. High TA levels will increase the rate of PH increases significantly. High TA combined with aeration from the SWG tends to cause CO2 outgassing, which raises the PH.

    No DE should be getting into the pool. If you are getting DE in the pool, you are either forgetting to use the rinse setting after backwashing or there is a tear or hole in one of the grids/fingers inside the filter. If you consistently rinse after backwashing, you should examine the grids/fingers and replace any with tears or holes.

    Your calcium saturation is still fairly high. Using the Scaletec Plus is a possible short term solution. Longer term, lowering TA will significantly reduce the risk/amount of calcium scaling.

    There will always be some calcium accumulating on parts of the waterfall that get wet and the water then evaporates instead of running back into the pool. Scaletec Plus and lowering your TA will help control/eliminate calcium scaling on portions of the waterfall where the water runs down into the pool rather than evaporating.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •