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Thread: Pump too powerful?

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    Pump too powerful?

    I bought a Hayward Above Ground Skimmer (SP1091LX) for my ABG pool which has a 1.5" adapter. I was considering buying a Hayward XStream pump/filter combo (CC1000) but I think it may be too powerful for the 1.5" adapter.

    According to Hayward's site:
    The maximum recommended water velocity is six (6) or eight (8) feet per second for suction lines and ten (10) feet per second for return lines.
    Then they give a chart for the maximum GPM for different pipe sizes based on the velocities above.
    Pipe, 6 f/s, 8 f/s, 10 f/s
    1.5" 38 GPM, 51 GPM, 63 GPM
    2.0" 63 GPM, 84 GPM, 105 GPM
    2.5" 90 GPM, 119 GPM, 149 GPM

    So if the XStream is 80 GPM, it is too powerful for the 1.5" suction line, right?

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Now wait a minute! I just reread the tech specs on the XStream 1000 and it says it comes with 1.5" fittings! What am I reading wrong about their pump sizing?

    http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/Pump_filter_sizing.pdf

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    The "maximum recommended water velocity" is just that, a recommendation. Everything will still work at higher flow rates in small pipes, you are just wasting more of your electricity on resistance to water flow.

    As a general rule, swimming pool pumps are commonly oversized and filters are commonly undersized. You will normally do better with a smaller pump and a larger filter.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Hi Charles,

    I am getting 8 feet persecond now on my main pump.

    I doubt you can get the 80GPM once all plumbing are hooked up.
    Its OK, just watch the air bubbles on the strainer. Too much vacuum may produce air bubbles which you may interpret as leak on suction. Keep the inlet pipe that goes to pump suction port at least 15" straight pipe. Pump suction side does not like bends/elbow close to the port/fitting.

    I have a 1.5HP Pentair that I use 1.5" hose for both 33' inlet and 36' outlet, it is about 70-80GPM estimated...see my signature.

    Just like what Jason said...you will pay a bit $$ for resistance.

    Enjoy your pool.... :P
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPP
    Keep the inlet pipe that goes to pump suction port at least 15" straight pipe. Pump suction side does not like bends/elbow close to the port/fitting.
    Interesting.

    Let me ask something about fluid dynamics... I am moving the equipment about 6 feet from the pool to improve the looks of the place. Does it help anything to use a larger piping, say 2", from the skimmer to the pump with 1.5" adapters on each end? Just wondering if it would reduce resistance.

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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Ooopss, you must ask Mas985 or Jason on fluid dynamics. I do not have the background.

    But I did some experiment if you want to take a look :

    in-the-name-of-loosing-my-head-t9177.html

    Don't waste time trying to do that 2" to 1.5". I do not see any real benefit as per my test. I did exactly what you wanted to do. In the end its about the water having to go to a 1.5" again.

    I do not know above ground pool layout, but if you have a skimmer and a suction/drain somewhere else, meaning two suctions, opening up both is better, even if the pipe feeding your pump is 1.5". If you have those two 1.5" suctions, my test did show a bit of improvement if you change the suction side to 2". So 1.5" x 2 pipes into a 2" tee and then 2" pipe all the way to the pump. But my pump port is 2" FYI both In/Out

    Good luck
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Charles,

    This is the 1st and earliest post I did on hydraulics questions.

    did-my-builder-screw-up-by-using-2hp-pump-but-1-5-pipe-t5051.html


    DO read slowly, I made quite a lot of mistake there. Its a learning process
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Switching the pipes/hoses from 1 1/2" to 2" will help, but for an above ground pool it doesn't usually make that big of a difference (because the hoses are usually fairly short to begin with). The longer your pipes/hoses the more of an improvement you will get from increasing the diameter.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles
    Let me ask something about fluid dynamics... I am moving the equipment about 6 feet from the pool to improve the looks of the place. Does it help anything to use a larger piping, say 2", from the skimmer to the pump with 1.5" adapters on each end? Just wondering if it would reduce resistance.

    Large pipe always reduces resistance. However, it may not make that much of a difference. It really depends on how much resistance is in the other parts of the plumbing. If it is easy to do, I would say go ahead, otherwise it may not be worth the effort. It is a proportional change so for example, if you change 6' of pipe and the equivalent length of the rest of the plumbing (fittings, filter, heater, etc) is 200', then there will be little change in overall head. Unfortunately, this is usually the case.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Wow, after reading those threads, inground pools take a lot more thought. I am glad I am practicing on an ABG pool. My wife wants an inground but I want to be sure we are going to live here for awhile. And in the meantime, it lets me learn a bit about all this stuff first. I just dealt with algae and am glad I am doing it on 8000 gallons and not 30-40 thousand gallons!

    I am designing the setup now. I think I will have the 1.5" skimmer and inlet pipes Y into a 2" pipe:

    Then 2" to the pump with a reducer on the end. I will use 45's and 90 sweeps to reduce resistance. After the SWG, I will use a reducer to get back to 2" all the way to the outlet. I will plumb in a T for later use for solar heating or fountain cooling.

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Why do you need the Y? Don't all Intex pools only have one Inlet and one Outlet? I used all 2" PVC and 2-45* bends instead of 90's in my plumbing. Then again, I have 35' of plumbing between my pool and filter and it goes undeground.

    HTH,
    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Pump too powerful?

    I got a skimmer I am adding along with the inlet on the pool:



    Both are 1.5" so I will use the Y to go to a 2" pipe to the filter.

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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Hi Charles,

    Good thing if you are adding a skimmer, that will allow you to do overflow or water movement for the few inches of surface water which where most dirt is at. I got a lot of fine dirt/dust everyday floating around on the water surface.
    The pool never come with a skimmer or what ?
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Pump too powerful?

    It came with a basic skimmer that is in the pool.



    I got the replacement because it will provide for a better vacuum attachment and not be an eyesore in the pool.

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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Wow, my kids will break it within 2 hours in the pool if the skimmer is like that. You are right, its does not look good.
    I have zero knowledge of above ground pool ready to use like yours. We don't have anyone selling those here.
    Good luck with your project.

    Just make sure circulation is good, it keeps sanitizer dead spot away. My pool is not so good as far as water circulation is concerned, its too deep and made as such immediate drop off from shallow to deep for diver training. My last deeper 6 feet of water column do not get proper circulation. I have managed to brush off about 2" line of algae on the grout once at the bottom where it is opposite the main drain..while the entire pool is sparkling clean. I can not do a pool like a normal pool for gradient...shallow to deep...this is a very specific pool for dive training. I should have placed 1 more DRAIN opposite to the current DRAIN or add at least 4 inlet nozzles at the deep spot. The pool builder never build a pool like this, so they follow basic guideline for a typical 6 feet deep pool with nice easy slope. Anyway I never got involved with the pool build or its operation until after a year into the operation. Its a bit too late but we are learning everyday and now the water is better than ever. Thanks to this Academy too...

    I got the back up pump on trolley where I can adjust to my liking where the suction and discharge will be by positioning the hoses. Also not a sweet looking add on to the pool but it works and only done when no one in the pool, but it speed up circulation. It pumps more water than the bigger pumps, simply because of shorter plumbing and single stage filter.

    Enjoy your pool
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
    Approx 36 ft by 15 feet. 2HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand Filter with Zelbrite ( Zeolite ), Hayward Cartridge Filter, Aquamatic Silver+Copper Ionizer ( suspended use since Oct 2008 ), Prozone Ozonator, 2 gram/hr, Analog Flowmeter on pipe

    Back Up Pump & Filter on trolley, Pentair 1.5HP + Pentair Cartridge Filter, Slime Bag 1 micron Jumbo Size, downstream of Cartridge

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Pump too powerful?

    I put a 90 degree 2" PVC pipe on my return so it keeps the pool swirling. With the newer more powerful pump, I will probably direct it downward and a little to one side with a 45 degree elbow. I would think that keeping the water stirred up would help to keep the pool cleaner.

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: Pump too powerful?

    Ok, I understad now, actually, I think I remember a thread about someone adding a skimmer to thier Intex(maybe it was you?).

    Sounds like you have this all thought out. The only thing I can add is you might want to use a short rubber hose or rubber couple to connect the pool wall to the PVC. Since their is no metal behind the wall, they tend to flex a little when you push off or with a lot of rough water movement(kids splashing). Since the PVC runs are short, thi flexing could damage them.

    HTH,
    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

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