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Thread: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

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    Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Duraleigh,

    Earlier in the season you had mentioned that you were running a bit of an experiment with your LQ by running it at "SWG-like" levels of FC and CYA. As we are coming toward the end of the swim season in the northeast, I was wondering if you would share any observations and findings you may have.

    Thanks!
    28,000 gallon gunite/white plaster with 30ft RBB and 2ft sheer descent, 100 sq ft thermaledge, 50sq ft spa w/ 6 jets
    2HP Jandy pump, 60sq ft Jandy DE filter, 400,000 BTU Jandy LX Nat Gas Heater, 2 Jandy color lights + Jandy color spa light, Jandy Aqualink RS6, Jandy AquaPure 1400

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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    I was wondering if I had missed his findings. We are thinking about getting a liquidator during the off season but I am almost afraid to change our routine for next year because we had so much success with the BBB method this year thanks to this forum.

    My greatest fear is it will cause me to not check the water on a regular basis and forget about the chlorine. Im affraid its hard to hook up too ...
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
    Helpful Links:
    Pool School,Pool Calculator,Cl/CYA Shock Chart,TF Test Kit
    Doing BBB and loving it!

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    TizMe -

    I can tell you that it hasn't made me check on my water any less. As for hooking it up, it's really easy. The challenge is in tweaking the performance to your specific set up. In my case, I actually find the need to use the LQ plus a small amount of trichlor (through the chlorinator the PB installed) in order to keep my levels at the recommended levels (part of the reason why I'm interested in Dave's experience as he was using SWG FC and CYA levels this season, I believe). For next year, I am considering changing my configuration to use 3/8 ID tubing (without changing any of the connections) as I can't get the flowrate to max out, which I think I need with a 28,000 gallon pool that gets full sun from 9am - 7pm.
    28,000 gallon gunite/white plaster with 30ft RBB and 2ft sheer descent, 100 sq ft thermaledge, 50sq ft spa w/ 6 jets
    2HP Jandy pump, 60sq ft Jandy DE filter, 400,000 BTU Jandy LX Nat Gas Heater, 2 Jandy color lights + Jandy color spa light, Jandy Aqualink RS6, Jandy AquaPure 1400

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    I was wondering if you would share any observations and findings you may have.
    Yeah, I screwed up. I was out of town for a four day stretch and the pool had no chlorine that entire four days. That was about three weeks ago. The end result was a nice dose of mustard algae.

    Now, I'm still pretty sure I would've been okay had I kept FC in the pool. I had been running around 2ppm with a CYA of around 40 for about 6-8 weeks or so and all was well. I think I was probably on the thinnest of margins as far sanitation, tho, and that little hiccup in my FC was all the algae needed to get a foothold.

    Now, I've had to shock, of course, and back up running around 6-7ppm FC to hold off the algae.

    My plans are to get my pool balanced next spring and start running at low FC again. I will run the pump from about 10:00AM to 6:00PM and then again for two 2-hour periods at night......my thinking being to have the FC in the pool as evenly as possible in a 24 hour period.

    That's the really nice thing I like about LQ. Once you get it set up, it can introduce FC into your pool virtually identical to an SWG at much less initial cost and zero operating cost. The caveat being "once you get it set up". Naturally, SWG's require some initial setup as well but I think the LQ takes a little more "hands on" to get it right.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    That's the really nice thing I like about LQ. Once you get it set up, it can introduce FC into your pool virtually identical to an SWG at much less initial cost and zero operating cost.
    There is an important difference. A SWG has very high FC levels in the cell and immediate plumbing so the water flowing through while the cell is in operation is being supershocked. The liquidator is more like using a peristaltic pump and this very high FC level really does not happen (although the FC level at the point of injection will be higher than the rest of the system.)

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    The liquidator is more like using a peristaltic pump and this very high FC level really does not happen (although the FC level at the point of injection will be higher than the rest of the system.)
    I think JohnT posted his test results taken from the 15 or so gallon reservoir at the top of the liquidator and it was around 90ppm. I would think that would have a similar effect.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    The liquidator is more like using a peristaltic pump and this very high FC level really does not happen (although the FC level at the point of injection will be higher than the rest of the system.)
    I think JohnT posted his test results taken from the 15 or so gallon reservoir at the top of the liquidator and it was around 90ppm. I would think that would have a similar effect.
    But you have to look at the total volume of high FC level liquid being added to the pool. The liquidator is still a 'drip feed' of this superchlorinated resevoiur. In a SWG the entire amount of superchlorinated water is being added to the pool.

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Hello all
    I bought my LQ from Duraleigh at the first of the year. I have had a clean clear pool all year here in West Virginia. I have kept the FC between 3 and 8 with and avg of 5. If I keep the setting right before 3 seems like i get better results with bleach usage. For the money I think it was a worthwhile investment for me. I totally got rid of the tablet chlorinator. If you have any questions feel free to PM me or respond on here.
    22,000 IG vinyl liner
    sand filter
    LQ 8 gallon

    Jacuzzi Hot Tub
    420 gallons

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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    My curiosity is how to hook it up without doing a whole bunch of plumbing and alterations to my filter system and plumbing. Can you take some pics mikemedic so I can see how you did yours , please?
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
    Helpful Links:
    Pool School,Pool Calculator,Cl/CYA Shock Chart,TF Test Kit
    Doing BBB and loving it!

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    But you have to look at the total volume of high FC level liquid being added to the pool. The liquidator is still a 'drip feed' of this superchlorinated resevoiur. In a SWG the entire amount of superchlorinated water is being added to the pool.
    I don't think it works that way since the output from an SWG is only a somewhat higher ppm FC than the general pool water, not 80 ppm. Though the FC level "between the plates" may be 80 ppm FC, clearly all of the water isn't going through that area since it would emerge out of the cell at 80 ppm FC if that were the case. Instead, I think that a small portion of the water through the cell is exposed to the high FC levels with the average of the bypass water and the water in between the plates being the fairly low ppm FC higher (4-10 ppm FC, most likely) that emerges from the cell as a whole and through the returns into the pool. A 2 ppm FC loss per day to be recovered with an SWG at 20% on-time and one turnover of water per day would be 2/0.2 = 10 ppm FC. If the output were 10 ppm FC higher than a starting 4 ppm FC in the pool water, then the 80 ppm FC in between the plates would be with x*80 + (1-x)*4 = 10, x=7.9% of the water volume.

    Now there IS a difference even in the small super-chlorinated water volume between an SWG and The Liquidator. With an SWG, the chlorine generated is done so in very acidic conditions (near that plate) so the hypochlorous acid concentration is extremely high. In The Liquidator, the high FC is at high pH and the hypochlorous acid concentration is much lower. I estimate that the 80 ppm FC in the SWG would be nearly all hypochlorous acid closer to the chlorine generating plate (even with CYA, at low pH it would still be 40+ ppm hypochlorous acid), while in The Liquidator, the same 80 ppm FC would only result in a hypochlorous acid concentration of around 2.3 ppm since the pH would be 8.83 (I also assume CYA in the water). If 50 ppm Borates are used, then the pH would be 8.19 and the hypochlorous acid concentration around 8.1 ppm. These are still very high numbers -- remember that in pool water with an FC 10% of the CYA that the hypochlorous acid concentration is only around 0.05 ppm (equivalent to 0.1 ppm FC with no CYA). The water in the Liquidator is exposed to this elevated chlorine level for a longer period of time, but it's a lower volume of water (rate of water flow) compared to the SWG. Again using the one turnover example, but a "100% on-time" for The Liquidator while the pump is running, one needs 2 ppm FC of 80 ppm FC mixed with the pool water so that's x*80 + (1-x)*2 = 4, x=2.6% of the water volume.

    The bottom line is that both manual dosing or using The Liquidator with a hypochlorite source of chlorine exposes the water to lower peak chlorine levels than in an SWG with this latter exposure time being very brief. Of course, that's the theory. We'll still need to see if this really matters in practice.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    I have tested the water out of my cell and it was in the neighborhood of 30 ppm.

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    And all the water in your system is going through the cell and not being bypassed? Then the ontime must be very short. If you only need to add 2 ppm FC per day and your pump is on for one turnover per day, then the ontime would only be 2/30 = 6.7%. Either that or the chlorine loss per day is higher than 2 ppm FC. I suppose this sort of situation would happen when using a well-oversized cell.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    I've had my LQ for 9 months and I love it. What I am about to write I do not recommend, I keep my CL level between 1.5 - 3.5, mostly 3.5. The 1.5 is when I let the LQ get very low in CL (not able to see a band of yellow). My CYA levels have fluctuated between 30-55ppm do to draining/rain season, so I have been on the low side and even below the recommended CL to CYA levels. I have yet to have an algea bloom. I have shocked after heavy use 3x's since the LQ installation. I know using the BBB method will reduce or even eliminate the need to shock (which the first 7 month before the LQ I never shocked using BBB), but I do it as a precaution. My case is extreme due to living in Miami (lots of sun which most pool service guys recommend I keep my CYA 60-80ppm) and heating my pool to 88-92 degrees all summer long with out a cover.

    I did have an issue with the LQ the 2nd month I had it with the dreaded WS(white stuff) and it clogged my lines. I attributed it to pouring the CL to fast and disturbing the bottom crud but the other threads have proved that wrong. I have minimal WS which is to say I do see some small particals but no issues. For those interested with my pool numbers

    CL 1.5-3.5 target 3.5
    PH 7.2-7.6 target 7.4
    CYA 40-55 target 50
    TA 60-70 target 70
    CH 380 target 300. I did have CH up to 600 but did a partial drain about 4 months ago.

    Before LQ April 07- Oct 07 I used .5gal of 10.5% CL daily. During the winter months with cover and LQ <2gal a week
    This summer 2.5 gal of 10.5% CL weekly in LQ
    20x40 24,000 gal IG plaster/CircuPool RJ45 SWG/2 skimmer/2sp 2.5hp Jandy Stealth/340sq ft cart filter/600sqftHeliocol Solar Panels/6ft semi circlr tanning ledge/25ft deep end bench/5ft sheer descent/2 lion head water features/1300sqft travertine paver/2 Colorlogic lights/Hayward Navigator/3step 2ft raised bond beam

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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    And all the water in your system is going through the cell and not being bypassed? Then the ontime must be very short. If you only need to add 2 ppm FC per day and your pump is on for one turnover per day, then the ontime would only be 2/30 = 6.7%. Either that or the chlorine loss per day is higher than 2 ppm FC. I suppose this sort of situation would happen when using a well-oversized cell.
    Goldline cells don't use a bypass manifold like the autopilot cells do. In fact, most SWGs don't use a bypass manifold. Also, remember that the cell is generating only for a percentage of the pump run time. Average run time for a properly sized system seems to be about 8 hours in the summer and less in winter. My cell output is between 6% and 20% to maintain 4 ppm FC,

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    Cherie's Avatar
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    Re: Duraleigh - LQ FC Experiment update?

    Hi mikemedic. I'm with Tizme on this one. We're in the process of adding our 2nd return jet and wanted to include The Liquidator at the same time. I love the BBB method and have not had to shock since starting it in June. We had a sitter over last night and she commented that our pool water didn't "stink" like other pools do. She was amazed when I told her how the process works, and the only thing I really add to the pool on a daily basis is a little bit of household bleach!

    But I'd like to get away from having to haul the bleach out and sweep the pool down (I always sweep the pool when I add my bleach).

    So if you wouldn't mind, would you provide us with pictures of your setup?

    Thanks!
    32x16 buried Doughboy, 4' shallow - 7' deep
    Pentair Dynamo 1 hp, 2-speed - Pentair 150# SD40 w/zeolite (75#)
    One skimmer/two returns/Aquabot Turbo T2

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