New Pool Design (Baton Rouge, LA) - Seeking Design Input

[Matchless1]

I’ve been designing my pool over the last 8 months. I still have another year until construction starts. I haven’t settled on a builder yet, but have talked to several to get budgetary pricing and pointers here and there (also a lot from this forum). I was hoping to get some feedback from the forum on my design and components so far. Here is a link to some photos of my AutoCAD plans so far (https://drive.google.com/folderview...xuQm1xdlZxWk5jalFXc1NGREM3M1liQTg&usp=sharing), and below is a general image and list of equipment/specs.

If anyone has any pointers or suggestions (or sees any red flags), please let me know. I’d rather work those things out now rather than this time next year. My specific areas of concern are:

1. Dirt build up on the Tanning Ledge (9” deep), Steps and Benches. That’s why I’m considering a Bubbler (also for entertainment of the kids) on the Tanning Ledge and/or the Step Clean nozzles and/or the 7th return in that area. Not sure what others have tried and recommend though. Is a Bubbler alone enough to keep the Tanning Ledge (~13’ x 7’) clean?
2. Is 9” of water too deep for the Bubbler to be effective? I only want about 18” of water shooting up above the surface.
3. What type and size (2", 1.5", 1", 3/4"?) of nozzle should I use for the Bubbler?
4. Location of pool returns and skimmers in order to maintain good circulation and cleaning.
5. Is the height (73”) vs. length (90”) of the waterfall too steep of a slope?

View attachment 34654

525 sq ft. (13,780 gal.) Salt Water Gunite Pool w/ Spray-Deck Decking, Flagstone Coping, Rock Waterfall & Slide
16” Wide Bench Seating (9” Deep)
13” Wide Steps (10” Vertical Drop w/ 7”-16” Vertical Drop on Last Step)
13’ x 7’ Tanning Ledge (9” Deep)
5.5 ft. high x 5 ft. wide Rock Waterfall extending down into pool
15.5’ Dolphin Fiberglass Slide
Oklahoma Flagstone Coping w/ Prosoco Sure Klean Weather Seal Natural Stone Treatment Sealer
5" thick concrete decking with steel reinforcement and Spray-Deck (Egg Shell) surface (376 sq. ft.)
Spray-Deck Addition to Existing Concrete Patio (630 sq. ft.)
Five (5) 1.5" Dia. x 24" Long PVC pipes installed in new decking for umbrellas
Four (4) 1.5" Dia. x 24" Long PVC pipes installed in existing concrete (prior to adding Spray-Deck) for umbrellas
One (1) 1.5" Dia. x 24" Long PVC pipe installed in pool Tanning Ledge for umbrella
Two (2) Anchor Tubes installed in new decking for basketball goal
Two (2) Pentair (Sta-Rite) IntelliPro VS (P6E6VS4H-209L) Pumps (One for Returns and Slide, Other for Waterfall)
Pentair CCP420 Filter
Pentair 521213 IntelliTouch Load Center w/ IntelliChlor Transformer
Pentair 521223 i5S+3 Personality Kit
Pentair 520554 IntelliChlor Chlorine Generator (IC40)
Pentair 520500 ScreenLogic2 IntelliTouch and EasyTouch Systems iPhone/PC Interface Kit
Dolphin DX4 Electric Pool Cleaner
Low Voltage Lighting for Waterfall
Seven (7) Jandy 2", 2-Way Valves (Model 4716), Two (2) w/ Intermatic PE24VA Valve Actuators
Three (3) FlowVis 2.5" x 2" Flow Meters/Check Valves (Model FV-C)
Two (2) Pentair Intellibrite 601002 (70W) LED Pool Lights for right and left sides
One (1) Pentair Intellibrite 640122 (40W) LED Spa Light for Tanning Ledge
Two (2) Skimmers w/ 10" Skimmer Kit by PourALid
Seven (7) Pool Returns
Standard Hose Spigot on back side of waterfall for washing down slide after each use
Planter Drain: 59" and 39" Deck-O-Drains (1.5" x 3") tied into 4" PVC drain pipe
One (1) 10" Pour-A-Lid Auto Leveler w/ ~1 ft. of 1-1/2" Sch. 40 PVC Piping to Pool, ~ 9 ft. of 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC Piping tied into cust.-supplied valve off irrigation main, and ~9 ft. of 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC Piping tied into 4" PVC drain pipe
Drainage System w/ Two (2) 12" Catch Basins w/ Flat Grate and Seven (7) 4" Hidden Drains by PourALid

Possible Adders:
Staircase Lighting (in steps) up to Slide
One (1) Bubbler on Tanning Ledge w/ Jandy 2", 2-Way Valve (Model 4716), and Valve Box w/ 6" Utility/Access Cover by PourAlid
Eight (8) Paramount Step Clean Nozzles on Tanning Ledge, Steps and Benches w/ One (1) 2-Port Paramount Water Valve, and One (1) Jandy 2", 3-Way Valve (Model 4717) w/ Intermatic PE24VA Valve Actuator

Thanks for any suggestions and feedback! And if anyone wants to see dimensioned drawings, I can post those as well...just let me know.

Brian

 

[pooldv]

The autofill has a float in it, like a toilet, it only adds water when the water level drops. Although it is not a bad idea to have a valve to be able to shut it off. I have returns above all benches and blowing toward the sun shelf and a return in the middle back of the sun shelf. The only thing that keeps dust off my benches, steps and sun shelf is me and a brush. Skimmers each need to face prevailing summer wind and prevailing winter wind.

 

[Matchless1]

Thanks for the tip on the skimmers! Never thought about that, but it makes sense to try if possible. After a little research, it looks like the prevailing summer winds in my area are from the south-southeast, and the prevailing winter winds are from the northwest. I've added a North indicator to my "Plan View 2" drawing. Knowing all this, it might make more sense to place one skimmer at the back of the tanning ledge (especially if the waterfall will be shoveling water that direction when it's running), and one on either the left or right side of the waterfall. The only questions would be, can I put a skimmer in 9" of water (tanning ledge) (and is it a good idea?), and will the skimmer next to the waterfall really collect anything while the falls are running (but maybe that doesn't matter since they won't be running most of the time)? Any other suggestions for locations of the skimmers based on this new information?

Also, the more I think about it, I do like the idea of having the float valve to automatically shut the water OFF. I think I’ll keep the control valve upstream of that though so that the float valve cannot decide when to turn the water ON. Any thoughts on whether I should put the float valve in the deck or just off the deck in the grass? Probably less expensive in the grass I would think.

 

[Divin Dave]

Ideally,
you want the water circulation in the pool to be in a circular pattern. This promotes good skimming perfomance.
So for return placement, and skimmer placement, you need to consider which direction you want the circulation to be
and place the returns and skimmers accordingly.

pooldv is right in that you need the skimmers facing the prevailing winds, but keep in mind also, to place skimmers in a location
that isn't shaded by a curve in the pool wall.

 

[Matchless1]

Pooldv, I took your advice and added the auto fill float valve (after the manual control valve), which I actually learned also functions as an overflow line. This will allow auto-off w/o allowing auto-on, which is what I want.

Divin Dave, if you look at my "Plan View 2" drawing I think it shows that I should have pretty decent circulation. The current skimmer locations aren't the absolute best for prevailing winds, but they're not that bad either (SK2 faces east, SK1 faces southwest). If I move one to the tanning ledge, it would essentially be (like you said) shaded by 2 pool walls. I also realized, I can't put any skimmers on the rock wall b/c I wouldn't be able to access the basket, so that's out. About the only other option I could see is moving SK1 about halfway between R4 and R5 (right by the word "Bench"). That would make it face northwest (winter winds) and still be accessible. Only thing is that it would be in 9" of water, which may not be an issue...just not sure though. I could also swap SK1 and R1 to make it more south facing, but then SK1 would be facing a very small area of the pool (deep end), so I'm not sure how much better that would really be. Also, the current from R1 may make debris rush past SK1 without being sucked into the skimmer.

 

[Matchless1]

Anyone else have any suggestions or words of wisdom/caution with my setup? I don't know if I can accept the fact that I nailed everything, except skimmer locations. Sure could use some thoughts on my original questions 1-3 and 5, as well as more input on skimmer locations. I've added a general design picture in the original post, but the files attached in the link are much higher resolution.

 

[pooldv]

Double check that you really want to start at 3' deep. That is very shallow, hold a tape measure up to you and see where 3' lands. My 3-1/2 starting depth is too shallow for us and kids. We would start at 4 if we built again.

 

[Matchless1]

You bring up a very good point pooldv. My wife and I actually thought about this for quite a while. We even tried out several pools to gauge how different depths felt. We landed on starting at 3', but sloping down immediately for about 20' down to 4-1/2'. The main reason for the shallow start depth was our kids. Right now they are 3 & 5, and we are ALL pretty short (wife and I are both 5' 4"). So we really just wanted them to be able to enjoy more of the pool at an earlier age. We'll have the tanning ledge and benches, so maybe that's enough. Just not really sure. I'm assuming you chose the 3-1/2' starting depth for your kids too? If so, do you regret that depth just because they're taller now or some other reason? Here's a picture of the depth profile currently.

View attachment 34660

 

[pooldv]

We did not choose the 3-1/2, PB spec'd it because that is the norm. We didn't have a clue. Our kids are 13 and 15 now, but we still have young kids over pretty regularly, I think the youngest is 6 these days. But, none of the kids spend any time standing around in the pool. Only adults do that . The kids are everywhere all the time, swimming, cannon balling, climbing on us. They really like to hang out on the benches as a home base. We have three spread around the pool and they use them as launch pads to catch balls, a place to keep their projectiles, play king of the hill, take a break, etc.

 

[imperator]

I don't know if I can accept the fact that I nailed everything, except skimmer locations.

All I can say is that is a pretty well thought out design!

1. Dirt build up on the Tanning Ledge (9” deep), Steps and Benches.

The guy that did my stub out plumbing recommended putting one of the returns in the corner of the tanning ledge to push water/debris across and off the deck. Works fine for us. (you probably already had that in mind)
One other suggestion on this ... your ledge takes a pretty hard 90 at one point. That might stop flow and drop debris. I would consider more of a curve.


Other suggestions ...
Consider throwing your waterfall suction over to the area nearest the equipment and out of view from the house.
Not sure how the PB's will react to putting a pool that close to an existing patio (which probably has a grade that drops toward the pool). I did this with my pool and had to come up with a "unique" method for drainage ... which I'm testing out for the first time with the heavy rain we're having this week.
I've not seen a spa light used for lighting on a tanning deck. Have you seen this before? Just wondering how that would be worked in with waterline tile and if it would cast plenty of lighting out of the pool? Maybe code issue also ... Location, Wall-Mounted Luminaires. Luminaires mounted in walls shall be installed with the top of the luminaire lens not less than 450 mm (18 in.) below the normal water level of the pool, unless the luminaire is listed and identified for use at lesser depths. No luminaire shall be installed less than 100 mm (4 in.) below the normal water level of the pool.

Geaux!

 

[Matchless1]

Ok. That will be similar for us (3 benches and tanning ledge). One other reason we (think) we like the 3' to 4.5' transition area is for ease of walking, especially with a basketball goal and possibly volleyball net. We don't want to have to "swim" while doing these activities. What would you say is the reason(s) you don't like the 3-1/2' depth?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Matchless1]

All I can say is that is a pretty well thought out design!

Thanks!

The guy that did my stub out plumbing recommended putting one of the returns in the corner of the tanning ledge to push water/debris across and off the deck. Works fine for us. (you probably already had that in mind)

Yes, that's the reason for Return #7 being in the [almost 90 degree] corner of the tanning ledge. By the way, how deep is your tanning ledge?

One other suggestion on this ... your ledge takes a pretty hard 90 at one point. That might stop flow and drop debris. I would consider more of a curve.

Yeah, I see what you mean. That's kind of why I'm hoping between Return #7 and the bubbler, I can keep debris out of that area. Otherwise, I may consider the step cleaners if it fits in the budget. Does anyone else have a similar geometry to their tanning ledge? If so, what's your return setup or method of keeping this area clean (other than brushing obviously)?

Other suggestions ...
Consider throwing your waterfall suction over to the area nearest the equipment and out of view from the house.

Excellent idea! That will increase aesthetics, decrease NPSHR, and save money on piping/fittings. I'm thinking about putting it on the left or right side of the bench on the deep end, or would that be too close to the skimmer/returns?

Not sure how the PB's will react to putting a pool that close to an existing patio (which probably has a grade that drops toward the pool). I did this with my pool and had to come up with a "unique" method for drainage ... which I'm testing out for the first time with the heavy rain we're having this week.

Agreed. I've spent a lot of time working out this issue (on paper at least). If you look at my 2nd drawing, it shows a green 4" drainage pipe running the entire length between the new decking and the existing decking with deck drains every 7' or so to help move any water that may collect in that area. I think this will be sufficient, but let me know if you think otherwise.

I've not seen a spa light used for lighting on a tanning deck. Have you seen this before? Just wondering how that would be worked in with waterline tile and if it would cast plenty of lighting out of the pool? Maybe code issue also ... Location, Wall-Mounted Luminaires. Luminaires mounted in walls shall be installed with the top of the luminaire lens not less than 450 mm (18 in.) below the normal water level of the pool, unless the luminaire is listed and identified for use at lesser depths. No luminaire shall be installed less than 100 mm (4 in.) below the normal water level of the pool.

Interesting point. One of my potential builders actually recommended (and quoted) it with a spa light there. The ledge will be 9" deep, so I'll have to check and see if the Pentair LED spa light is suitable for shallow depths and whether or not it will fit with 4" of water above it. I do want a way to light this area, so any other suggestions on how to do that are welcome.

Speaking of lighting, given the overall size of the pool (~35' x 13' with a 10' tanning ledge), do you think the 2 Pentair LED's on each end will be sufficient (assuming I figure out a way to light the tanning ledge area)? I probably won't have white plaster, but it won't be very dark either...probably a shade or two darker than white.

Thanks so much for the feedback imperator! Very helpful!

 

[pooldv]

Ok. That will be similar for us (3 benches and tanning ledge). One other reason we (think) we like the 3' to 4.5' transition area is for ease of walking, especially with a basketball goal and possibly volleyball net. We don't want to have to "swim" while doing these activities. What would you say is the reason(s) you don't like the 3-1/2' depth?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When playing basket/volleyball/catch, etc you can't really walk/run, it is more like bouncing and jumping. I don't think there is enough floor slope either way to change that dynamic.

What we don't like about 3-1/2 and less is that when you stand up during basket/volleyball/catch, etc you are more out of the water than in it, 3' isn't quite waist deep, so it takes away the playing IN the water aspect of it. It is more like playing out of the water. Not sure how tall 6-8 year old kids are anymore, it's been a few years, our kids have pretty much caught up with us these days! But, armpit/neck deep water for them would be the minimum depth to start I would say.

 

[Matchless1]

When playing basket/volleyball/catch, etc you can't really walk/run, it is more like bouncing and jumping. I don't think there is enough floor slope either way to change that dynamic.

What we don't like about 3-1/2 and less is that when you stand up during basket/volleyball/catch, etc you are more out of the water than in it, 3' isn't quite waist deep, so it takes away the playing IN the water aspect of it. It is more like playing out of the water. Not sure how tall 6-8 year old kids are anymore, it's been a few years, our kids have pretty much caught up with us these days! But, armpit/neck deep water for them would be the minimum depth to start I would say.

Ok, thanks for that info. 3' is exactly waist deep for my wife and I (being the shorties that we are ). And my kids are currently at 30" and 33" for shoulder heights, but we still have a whole year to grow! .

Imperator, fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), Louisiana has virtually no pool building code (at least that is enforced), which is weird, since SO many pools get built here. Anyway, none of my friends that have pools had to have theirs inspected; in fact, not even a permit is required (at least for the city/state...some neighborhoods require permits though). Anyway, I found these Globrite lights from Pentair (http://www.pentairpool.com/products/lighting-color-changing-globrite-pool-and-spa-led-lights-454.htm) that are very small and seem to be specifically designed for tanning ledges and other shallow areas. I would probably need 2 of these, instead of 1 of the spa lights. That increases the material cost about $200, but I think I'll probably go with those in order to get better distribution/coverage and less chance of spewing light out of the pool surface. Thanks for suggesting something else...never would've looked otherwise.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Double check that you really want to start at 3' deep. That is very shallow, hold a tape measure up to you and see where 3' lands. My 3-1/2 starting depth is too shallow for us and kids. We would start at 4 if we built again.

I agree, three feet is like nothing. I also question having a slide dump into only 5'5" without hitting the bottom? I truly think pools, especially custom ones like yours, should be deeper in the deep end. Everyone likes to dive in, or do cannon balls even if the pool is supposedly too shallow for diving. Make it safer from the git go by making the deep end deeper. Just my opinion of course. :angel:

 

[Matchless1]

Yippee, as far as the depth for the slide, I checked with Dolphin on this...3' - 3.5' is the minimum. Currently, I'm at 4.5' at slide entry. However, I do agree that people like to dive and cannon ball. As far as diving, I personally wouldn't feel safe with anyone diving in a pool less than 8' deep. If there was more length to the pool, I might have room to go that deep, but given the area we want for shallow water activities, there's just no way we could reasonably work in an 8' section without a steep drop, which I don't want. As far as cannon balling, I could see that actually happening, so I might look into trying to go a little deeper in the deep end. Thanks for the suggestions!
View attachment 34666

 

[Matchless1]

Here's a plan for starting at 3.5', sloping down to 4.5', then flat, then sloping down to 7' (instead of 6' previously). Seems like it might work out alright. Will definitely increase my volume, but also keep the pool cooler I suppose. Previously, my last step height varied from 7" - 16" (shown in original post). Now it's 13" - 16". Anyone see any issue with that? Should I maybe increase the first 3 step heights to 11" so that the last one only varies 10" - 13"?
View attachment 34667
View attachment 34668

 

[pooldv]

We cannonball like crazy people into 5' of water! Occasional booty bump by the big kids (over 40!), but you get it figured out.

 

[Matchless1]

Thanks pooldv. I was thinking the 5' - 6' area (our deep end) would be sufficient for cannon balling. I may just leave it max'd out at 6'.

Also, how deep are your benches? I definitely want one of ours to be 9", but I'm considering making one of the other long ones a little deeper, just so others have some options if they like it deeper.

And since you have benches, let me ask this...what type of coping do you have and do you have any issues with it digging into your back when sitting? We will have flagstone coping, so this is one thing I was concerned about.

 

[pooldv]

Our benches are 18" deep. We have flagstone also. I don't recall the flagstone being an issue with digging in the back. So, I guess not. Benches are great for the kids to use as home base, resting point, launching point, etc. And they are good for adults to sit on with icy cold beverages. Mostly, the kids seem to stand on them (and try to bean the adults with balls).