Poolsan copper in pool

[simonmoll]

I have been using the TFPC method for nearly a year and can vouch that it works!
However it is a daily time consuming operation and expensive in Chlorine where I live in Barbados (US$6 gall.).
Also when I am away for a couple of weeks the pool invariably goes green despite leaving explicit instructions for son and girlfriend.

So I bumped into my old pool man at the hardware store a few weeks ago and he said he had a new product and as he knew my pool was difficult (weekly pool maintenance never worked) and went green easily he asked if he could try it on my pool. As he is a nice guy I let him without checking what he was going to put into it.

Since he put this "Poolsan" stuff in it 16 days ago the pool has been crystal clear. The chlorine disappeared after a few days. All he told me was to keep PH in line (7.2-7.8) and to call him if it went cloudy (hasn't so far).

I know copper can do bad stuff to pools but so far no sign and he says as long as ph is ok no discoloration should happen. My pool is blue anyway so my question is.... am I being stupid or is this a viable long term solution especially if I can find a system for automatically adjusting ph??

 

[jblizzle]

All copper does is help prevent algae. It does nothing to protect you from pathogens that could be in the water. And as you seem to be aware, it has the potential to turn blond hair green and stain the pool surface.

To be blunt, with no sanitizer in the water, the pool is not safe.

 

[tim5055]

I know copper can do bad stuff to pools but so far no sign and he says as long as ph is ok no discoloration should happen. My pool is blue anyway so my question is.... am I being stupid or is this a viable long term solution especially if I can find a system for automatically adjusting ph??

not a viable long term solution. There is no free lunch. Copper "stuff" has been around a long time and if was magic everyone would be using it.

All copper does is help prevent algae. It does nothing to protect you from pathogens that could be in the water. And as you seem to be aware, it has the potential to turn blond hair green and stain the pool surface.

To be blunt, with no sanitizer in the water, the pool is not safe.

^^^^^What he said^^^^^^

Without a sanitizer your pool is unsafe. Maybe it's time to invest in a SWCG to cut down on the chlorine purchases.

 

[Divin Dave]

At 6$ a gallon for bleach, a SWG would definitely be worth considering.

 

[Patrick_B]

At 6$ a gallon for bleach, a SWG would definitely be worth considering.

Ditto that! Six dollars/Gal! Yikes.

 

[Tepelus]

Just keep the pH in the range. Sanitize the pool when in use. There is no reason to keep the swimming pool water sterile when nobody is using the pool. It may reduce the chlorine usage as algae growth will be inhibited at all times. I use a similar product together with a UV lamp as the pool is located at a holiday house that we visit 2-3 times per year.

 

[tim5055]

Just keep the pH in the range. Sanitize the pool when in use. There is no reason to keep the swimming pool water sterile when nobody is using the pool. It may reduce the chlorine usage as algae growth will be inhibited at all times. I use a similar product together with a UV lamp as the pool is located at a holiday house that we visit 2-3 times per year.

while this may work with a holiday/vacation home, it is probably not safe for a primary residence. I would think that using the pool any more than once a week would require it to be sanitized at all times.

But, this does point out that the teachings here are recommendations, not hard and fast rules. While copper/UV are not recomended practices, for your unique situation it works.

A side conversation on the pros and cons of copper, and other alternatives, has been split off to here. JasonLion

 

[simonmoll]

Ok so an update.
After 6 weeks the pool finally started turning green and I noticed some black spots on the bottom of the pool where debris had been.
Called pool guy and he came armed with more details of the Poolsan" (see Poolsanuk.com) compound.
It states it is an aqueous ionic compound of
Silver <1%
Copper<3%
Hydrochloric acis <10%
Gold<1%
Aluminium<1%
Zinc <1%
Nitric Acid <26%
Water<56%
He says that the silver etc keeps it bacteria free. As for the spots on the pool bottom he said I need to lower PH to 7 for one week and they will disappear.
Any chemists able to comment as to reality of this?
Thanks, Simon

 

[jblizzle]

The silver can help, but it does not act fast enough to be safe at pool temperatures.

 

[chem geek]

You can see comparative kill times for chlorine, copper, and silver in this post. If one wants to use metal ions to prevent algae growth and slow down bacterial growth, then a copper/silver (or copper/silver/zinc) combination will cover most of the bases for bacteria, albeit with a slower kill than chlorine. It should prevent uncontrolled bacterial growth and the copper should prevent algae growth if the concentrations are high enough. However, as you can see in the table, these don't do well for viruses or protozoan oocysts and they don't kill fast enough to prevent person-to-person transmission of disease.

So having even a small amount of chlorine would give you the best of both worlds since you are trying to reduce chlorine cost. For algae, at least, using a weekly algaecide such as Polyquat 60 would be another alternative. Using a phosphate remover would be yet another alternative. These are all supplements and would let you have a lower chlorine level (FC/CYA ratio). Obviously these are all at extra cost so you'd have to balance that against the savings in chlorine. With such alternatives, you could shoot for a lower FC/CYA level around 3% that should have you use about half the chlorine as "normal".

Risks in a residential pool are lower than in a commercial/public pool where one person can infect dozens of others, but having a small chlorine level would be a lot better than having none at all. You also need something to oxidize bather waste since the metal ions alone will not do that. Though the bather load in a residential pool is low, you still need at least some oxidizer in the pool (or have an ozonator) so a little chlorine can work well for that.

The main problem with metal ions is that they can cause staining. The black spots you are seeing might be staining from the silver (since it's black; could be copper though that staining is usually more greenish-black). He's having you lower the pH in the hope of redissolving the precipitated metal oxide stain back into the water as metal ions. As for the green you are seeing, that could be from the copper if the concentration of it got too high or if the pH got too high or it could be algae if the copper level wasn't high enough.

 

[simonmoll]

Well I think I know the pros and cons now.

I will try this Poolsan product for a little longer. The system should ensure that when I come back from my two weeks holiday I come back to a clear pool.

I will certainly add chlorine if I have kids party but generally it is only me and my 10 yr old using the pool.

It isn't easy to keep pool PH around the 7 level needed to remove stains so there is still work to do every day which is what I was trying to avoid.

Will update in due course.