cold temperatures and plastering/pebble-sheen

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tstex

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2012
2,177
Houston, TX
Hello to all,

We are in the final stretch of 7 months of mud, mud, and more colder mud.

They came and cleaned-out the pool Saturday, and I beleive are set to install the pebblesheen Monday. However, the temp's are going to range from lows of 28 to highs of 45-50 [coldest stretch of the whole winter here so far in Houston].

I know that when you apply stucco, it has to be above 40's for the cement to properly set and not crystalize. I am not, however, familiar w all the optimal or acceptable conditions for applying pebble-sheen/plaster. I learned that the thickness of the plaster/p-sheen on the walls is consistent w the thickness of the water-line tile. Makes sense. That tile w thin-set is about 3/8 - 1/2". Those tiles are a 6x6 travertine Noce.

I would appreciate your experience and feedback and let me know if there is anything I should make sure the installers do or do not to insure this is a correct and proper install. Any post installation things I should check?

SIDE NOTE:

Also, all of the column stones, wall stones, pool line stone, spillway of the spa to pool over flow stones are all travertine and have been installed for 2-3 months now. I wanted to clean and seal them before the plaster is installed. Can these be cleaned and sealed in the same day? The high today will be 51, the low 28-29 tonight, sunny all day.

Thank you very much,
tstex
 
Temperatures below freezing are a serious problem for applying pool plaster, and even temps around 40 are somewhat problematic. There are additives that can help the plaster cure at colder temperatures, but they tend to have a significant impact on the long term lifetime of the plaster. These issues can be avoided by enclosing the pool in a tent or enclosure of some kind and heating the whole area for several days during and after plaster is applied, though you hardly ever see this done.

Cleaning and sealing shouldn't be a problem. Try to apply the sealer fairly early in the day so it doesn't freeze too soon after application
 
This weather should not last too long. I would look into them holding off on the doing the finish.

YOU are the one that will have to live with the end results so........................

Of course they will say "it is no problem" because they want to get paid.

Your pool, your rules! LOL

Kim
 
Thanks for your responses. Here are the exact hi's lows and conditions....if seems if it is not cold, it will start raining again.

Sun/today; 51-29/Sunny, Mon 51-38/Part Cloudy, Tues 60-47/PC, Wed 49-28/PC, Thur 41-32/Sunny, Fri 45-39/Cloudy, Sat – Mon, 60%-70%-50%, respectively, chances of rain, temps 50-45 each day too

I am only going to all to proceed forward if the conditions exist to make for long term success....thanks and pls advise - tstex
 
As Jason mentioned, "Calcium Chloride" being one of them, can be added to prevent the plaster from freezing. However that is very risky, as the calcium chloride content if too high, can lead to compromised plaster. The thing is, it will take months, or longer, for issues to appear and by then, it's too late. The burden of proof that the plaster mix was screwed up will be on you.

There was a thread here in just the last few of weeks about exactly this, where the calcium chloride content of the plaster was too high, and it leached from the plaster. (can't find that particular thread, or I would link it).

Kim makes a very good point about holding off. It IS your pool that you have to live with and it costs LOTS of money.

Since you are in Houston, it will warm up quickly enough. It's not like it will be cold for months on end. Its worth considering holding off a couple days until the weather improves.

EDIT: Here is that post I was looking for. It's a long read, but very informative.
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/76654-Gray-mottling-problem
 
Thanks Dave - I have been on the PB butt to finish this thing, but due to wet weather, its been impossible. Now we have sun, but cold weather, then more rain after that, so it might be 2 more weeks now. Even in 2 more weeks, not sure of the temps then.

Here is the magic question: At what temp ranges can you plaster and then how long do you need for it to properly cure and during this time, what are the proper temp ranges? Based on the temps I posted above, is there a timeframe that is 100% doable? I am not for adding any catalysts into my plaster to speed-up curing. It is going to be done right, under right circumstances, or not done until it can be done... Yes Ma'am Kim
 
Tstex, I wish I could answer your question, but I can't.

I guess what I am trying to say is, accelerants and additives are very useful and OK to use, but ONLY IF, they are kept within the specs. There are legitimate reasons that specs exist. If the PB and the Plaster Guy want to proceed, then I would think they would be willing to assure you with guarantee, that they keep within the the product specs, at the risk of them having to pay to replace it if they dont!

Maybe those specs could be looked up online or ask your PB to review those with you and the plaster guy.

In the example link which I alluded to earlier, the Calcium Chloride content exceeded the engineering specs with resulting poor plaster which didn't manifest itself until months later. In that instance, the PB didnt even know that additives had been introduced into the mix at all! I would hazard to guess the root cause of the problem in this instance was an unknowledgeable worker made the decision to add it, and put too much in. And most likely he didnt even know there is a limt! And IMO, that is where the majority of the risk comes from. Lack of knowledge by the workers, not necessarily the PB or the Plaster company itself.

I would recommend to have a discussion with the PB and Plaster guy about it and all agree on how to proceed.
I wish I could offer more, but this is really the best advice I can give you.
 
Thanks Dave. I know each situation is unique and must be examined realtime.

What that being said, I would think that concrete exposed to 28-29 temps is pretty chilled. How does anything effectively, in general, bond to that? There is also a lot of moisture in the ground that is leaching up and out of the weep holes made in the pool so it would not float. The ground is saturated here and since it is a gumbo clay, it is not permeable or drains well at all.

I will discuss w pool builder now and determine the optimal path, w the caveat that both he and gunite/plaster/pebble-sheen company is on the hook for any future issues. We are applying pebblesheen as the final coat.

Again, thank you very much for your response as well as others. I also respect your answer bc it is not answer I want to hear, but one I need to hear....hope that makes sense.

tstex
 
Hi tstex,

yeah, I hear ya man... I know what you're saying.

If we cant really give a firm answer here on the forum, then we are here to at least listen with a real and bonified interest in your situation and offer what advice we can..

FWIW, this is indeed a sensitive subject for me personally. When my exposed aggregate deck and patio were poured last Dec. the high temp was about 35 and in low 20's at night, with no relief in sight. So though not nearly as critical as your plaster is, I sorta have been there and done that. I had a very very heated arugment with my PB and the workers doing the work when it happend, and even more heated arugments for weeks after the pour. But thats a story for another day and I dont want to side-track from your post.

I hope all goes well for you .... and please do update us as things progress.
 
Here's the update:

I sent some of the verbiage here from the forum, liability issues, making note that if they plaster now, I want them to sign a form of the temperatures at start and fnish, and if they added any catalysts, what were the exact mixing percentages and the name and qualifications of the person doing the mixing. Well, they agreed to post-pone....it's 33-34 now and not warming to 40 until 1pm, w out windchill factor.

So, I said when we get a date of 3+ days of temps all above 40, bring it on.....this is one job that w the TFP folks, it will be done right. thanks !
 

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Hello To All,

Here's an update:

They pebble-sheened the gunite today...low is 50, hi is 70...it is 70 right now, sunny all day...tomorrow they will acid wash hi 73, low 54, sunny as well. Wed is 64 & 54 w partly-cloudy...guess the wait was worth the while.

Thanks for everyone's help and assistance...now its get ready to "manage the pool water's chemistry".

Any initial tips would be great!

Thanks again,
tstex
 
Thanks K-kats, I already started to look at the pool school.

We live in Hou Tx, 16000 gal pool & spa, chlorine based. Do you have any recommendations on what kit to get? If you have any qualifying questions, pls let me know? this type of information is so great bc it comes from real pool owners w no vested interest other than happy and smart pool owners.

Greatly appreciated...PM me and I email you some pic's if you want. The summer kitchen is almost ready too...thx again, tstex

As the pebble tech started to dry, you can see footprints in the shallow area now. Is this normal and will go away when they acid wash tomorrow am?
 
I would get the TF-100 as it is the best bang for the buck! You should order it yesterday do you can be on top of your pool and how to balance it. PLEASE do not use or trust the Pool store. There is story after story of being "pool stored".

A free water test is not so free when they sell you things to "fix" your pool that you do not need and in some cases cause more harm than good.

As for the foot prints I will let someone else answer that one. I know what I THINK but.....

Kim
 
tstex said:
Thanks K-kats, I already started to look at the pool school.

We live in Hou Tx, 16000 gal pool & spa, chlorine based. Do you have any recommendations on what kit to get? If you have any qualifying questions, pls let me know? this type of information is so great bc it comes from real pool owners w no vested interest other than happy and smart pool owners.

Greatly appreciated...PM me and I email you some pic's if you want. The summer kitchen is almost ready too...thx again, tstex

As the pebble tech started to dry, you can see footprints in the shallow area now. Is this normal and will go away when they acid wash tomorrow am?
Click to expand...

The TF-100 is the best buy on the market, hands down. Go ahead and order one with a speed stir as well, and you'll never regret it. Overall, it's a tiny investment for the pool you just spent so much on, and it's one of the best things you could do for it.

As for your foot prints, it depends entirely upon how deep they are. If very, very light, they may fade or go away with time and lots of brushing. Sorry, but that is the best answer I can give you.
 
Just ordered the TF-100 w Magnet Speed Stir as well...will get here in 3-4 days and our pool is being filled today...the pool company is supposed to check it tomorrow and add chemicals accordingly, then hopefully I can do so by Sat...thx, tstex
 
Just be sure that you know and follow the PB recommendations for start up water chemistry. They may not jive exactly with TFP levels but your warranty and complying with what they want for chemistry is more important. Long term, TFP recommendations are best but during the start up to protect yourself and your warranty, follow their recommendations.
 
Thanks, appreciate the heads-up JV.

Our pebble sheen installer left a do's and dont's and what to do for the first 30 days...It talks about using the "Saturation Index" for "balancing" a new pool the first 30 days, and to monitor pH, alkalinity, Calcium hardness, water temp and CL [when it is appropriate to add]. It stresses monitoriing the pH and TA. Also states that based on water hardness, might need to add muratic acid 2-3 times per wk during 1st mo. It states not to Chlorinate the Pool until water is filtered and both pH & TA are acceptable. States that chlorine at early stages can cause metals & minerals to precipitate and causing possible staining or scaling. I have read posts on these issues..they are supposeed to come acid wash this today, then start the fill.

As with all things, there is a break-in period, normal main/monitoring periods, after 20 yrs, replaster/face-lift period and some OH Shxt periods inbetween if you do not keep up a reg main. schedule.

Since this is my first go-around, I can only learn by being teachable and humble, so I am all ears.

Finally, I have 2-3 neighbors that I sent the sign-up link to TFP so hopefully we'll get some new members going soon too.

Thanks,
tstex
 

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