Going down to 30 tonight. Should I run the pump all night

[Wilkod]

Hello all, We live in Houston and I intend to not "close" the pool for the winter but just keep it maintained as per normal. Tonight we are supposed to get a slight freeze; maybe around 30 degrees for a couple hours late tonight . Should I keep the pump running on low all night ?

Thanks and sorry for the late question!

 

[Wilkod]

Quick update - the search function just gave me a bunch of info on this. So I'm good for now; thanks!

 

[smforte]

AL here, going to be 27 here. I'm running mine. Rather be safe than sorry right?

 

[zethacat]

Exactly. During cold times like these, the intelliflo kicks on at 1000 RPM. My normal schedule is 6 hours. Even if the pump ran at 1000 RPM for the other 18 hours a day it would only cost $5.00 extra in electricity per month.

 

[Wilkod]

I have an intelliflo variable speed pump. Will it kick in automatically below a certain temp?

 

[zethacat]

The default is anti-freeze enabled, 40 degrees and 1000 RPM. I increased mine to 45 degrees because a Pentair rep told me that the internal temperature sensor is usually a few degrees higher than the outside temperature, which makes sense. Even if that is wrong, for the extra amount it will cost me in electricity, I'd rather be safe. Can't hurt to just make sure it's on and set the way you want it. Just press menu, and then use the arrow keys to navigate to anti-freeze.

 

[Patrick_B]

It will kick on at 32, so no worries. It will have to be a good deal colder than that for many hours before there was concern of freezing/bursting pipes.

 

[zethacat]

Hey, weather says below 32 degrees pretty much all night; from 11pm until 8am with a low of 25 that lingers for several hours. Sometimes it's hard to believe I live in the "South". I'm just waiting for the mid-winter prediction of 3 80ish days in a row so I can crank up the heater again.

 

[timerguy]

That's exactly why I bought an intermatic digital timer with a freeze sensor. It will supply power to my pump any time it gets to 32° then turn it off again when it gets above 32°. I just schedule a 24 hr runtime on my intelliflo at 450 rpm which will start when my timer's sensor supplys power. The intelliflo's sensor is only designed to protect the pump, not the plumbing and other equipment. I figure 450 rpms will be sufficient to keep water flowing to keep it from freezing.

 

[zethacat]

Unless your intermatic timer is setup to turn on other equipment (my dual timer only kicks on the left side, not the right side which is the booster pump), it simply turns on the pump when it gets too cold, and the pump running is what protects the other stuff. That's precisely what the Intelliflo antifreeze sensor does.

My PB configured my build with an intermatic timer and I questioned it at the time saying why are you bothering with that if the pump has built in scheduling and freeze protection. He said that's just how they do all pools.. and now I believe it's because he just wasn't educated enough about how the Intelliflo works. I regret not having had him remove it from the build, because while I was having a problem with my pump a Pentair rep came out here and re-wired my intermatic to be on all the time, rendering the intermatic useless anyway. He said I should just use the Intelliflo for scheduling and antifreeze, which is what I had suspected I should be doing in the first place. Plus I imagine there is an internal battery in the Intelliflo to keep track of time and such for scheduling. If you completely remove power from the pump, I imagine the battery will eventually go dead. I'm sure it's easy enough to replace, but it makes more sense to me that it should be used as a backup, not as a primary method of retaining settings in the pump.

In any event, I have my pump scheduled to run for 6 hours at 2000 RPM and then 1000 RPM for the remaining 18 hours of the day, so it's running all the time right now. It uses such a little amount of electricity when running at 1000 RPM that it will only cost me an extra $3.00 or so on my electric bill, plus it keeps the pool nice and clean anyway.

 

[timerguy]

The digital timer runs the boost pump and the swcg. I've had the timer for over a year. And while I schedule all the pump runs on the pump itself, I find it convenient to use the timer to sync the boost pump the swg and the intelliflo. Besides the pumps freeze protection is for only the pump itself not any of the other equipment. The Pentair installer said that was the correct way to ensure the effectiveness of the freeze protection for everything but the pump. This was also confirmed by Pentair cs. Since I'm running my cleaner and skimmers for 3 hrs and 4 hrs respectively, that should keep the pump schedules and clock in memory without problem. No need to run any longer than necessary even with the energy efficiency of the vs pump.

 

[mas985]

Keep in mind that it takes many hours for pipes to freeze and at 27F with a 15 mph wind, it takes over 24 hours to freeze a 1.5" pipe. So you really don't need to set the freeze protection temperature any higher than the minimum. It is unlikely to freeze even if you didn't run the pump at all. If it was my pool, I wouldn't even run the pumps, which I don't even when it gets down to 22F.

 

[timerguy]

What I'll keep in mind is that I've had faucets freeze at 30° and equipment replacement is big bucks I don't have to spend. I'd rather be safe than sorry. The default for my freeze sensor is 32° so, I think I'll leave it at that. The temp Tuesday morning is supposed to be 25° here.

 

[duraleigh]

+1 what mas985 said. I don't really think about it until 25 degrees overnight.

 

[mas985]

A 3/4" copper or steel pipe will freeze 5x faster than a 2" PVC pipe. Also, faucets are much more vulnerable because one end of the pipe is closed off and there is no pressure relief. This post has a lot more details on the physics of freezing: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/86914-The-Physics-of-Freezing-and-Freeze-Protection

It is good to be conservative but sometimes it can be overdone.

 

[zethacat]

I've got recirculating pumps on both water heaters. Aside from not having to wait for hot water, it has the added benefit of keeping the pipes warm.

 

[bblackburn]

That have my pump running at over 3000 rpm during freeze protection. Seems awfully high after reading the feedback from the forum. My normal rpm is around 2400. Am I ok to turn both of these down?


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[mas985]

Yes, you only need a small amount of water flow to keep the pipes from freezing. Event the lowest speed should be sufficient. Also, you need to be careful that every part of the plumbing gets flowing water. But you really should take other steps to prevent freezing as well because a power outage can make the plumbing vulnerable. Covering the equipment with a tarp is a simple and very cost effective method of reducing the chance of plumbing freezing should the pump fail. Adding a light bulb under the tarp could even alleviate the need the pump depending on the plumbing setup. Some more complicated setups may not do this automatically.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[timerguy]

I run my pump at 1500 rpm for normal operations , ie cleaner and skimming/swg and now 750 for freeze protection. I've been told that the boost pump will run the cleaner sufficiently regardless of main pump rpm as long as there's flow. I haven't checked it at a lower rpm than 1500. Maybe next spring. Last winter was the first for my timer/freeze sensor. The only time I'd be worried about power outage is if we had freezing rain and the resulting tree limbs falling on power lines. We haven't had that in the three winters we've been in this house. Last year we did have some below 20° temps. The freeze sensor worked perfectly all winter!