Pump Failure

[kajnjim]

I'm trying to figure out what happened to this pump. It's a Waterway 1.5 hp single speed pump. It ran well for 5 months. The pump was plugged into a timer on a 50ft 14g extension cord. There is a multi-outlet port with built-in breaker with reset button that the timer is plugged into. When checking pool a few days ago, I noticed pump motor not running. I reset the breaker and turned pump motor back on. It ran for 5 seconds and tripped breaker. Also did not sound right while running. Received replacement motor under warranty. Installed it and ran it plugged in without timer in place. Ran fine. Turned it off after about 2 minutes. Placed timer in line and turned pump motor back on. Immediately ran with same unusual sound as previous motor and tripped breaker. Removed timer. Turned motor back on and now makes unusual sound and trips breaker every time I attempt to run it. I have a third motor, but am reluctant to install it until I figure out what has happened with the previous 2 motors. I have attached a link to a video of the second pump running until breaker is tripped. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. The link: http://youtu.be/5-MzOINvS0g

Update: Just out of curiosity, I turned on the original pump motor that had problems and it ran fine. So now I'm really scratching my head. I will post a link to this one running normally for comparison to what the current pump sounds like. The link: http://youtu.be/9164tZj-KXQ

 

[pooladdict]

I am not good with electrical, but I do know that length of power cord can be an issue. Just what gauge is it? I had one 40' and the sucker was thick as ole get up. Electrician said that is what is needed to ensure pump gets proper power supply?

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

50 feet of 14/3 extension cord should not be used for more than 15 amps and it's best not to run it at or close to max rating (IMHO). Your single speed pump likely pulls about 12/14 amps running on 120 volt so it's a little close to the maximum and for safety I'd get get a 12 gauge just to make sure you don't damage the motor, melt the cord or start routinely tripping the breaker.
Or if you are handy and you don't need the full 50 feet cut 10+ feet off it and install a quality replacement male end (away from the pool) and in so doing you effectively lower the cords resistance and increase it's ability to handle over 15 amps safely.

What kind of timer are you using and is the timer rated for 15 amps minimum. Make, model number and maybe a picture ?

 

[kajnjim]

I did consider amperage and resistence. Knew I was close to max with the cord I'm using. Timer is rated for more than the motor pulls. If the cord were the problem, I would think it would have had issues sooner than 5 months down the road. Regardless, I will be replacing the cord with a 12g cord. Any thoughts on the noise the motor is making in the first video? Thanks.

Jim

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

What kind of timer are you using and is the timer rated for 15 amps minimum. Make, model number and maybe a picture ?

Make, model number and maybe a picture (of the timer).
I'm with you that I don't think the cord is the cause. I would want a heavier cord since this isn't a "temporary" use of the cord. But that's just me.

If you have tried two motors, the original that's worked for five months without problem and then replaced it with new and run into the same problem it's not the motor. Since you can remove the timer from the circuit and both the original and replacement motors run properly it sure sounds like something related to the timer is causing the breaker to trip and the odd motor noise. Either one of the internal contacts for the timer circuit itself or the male or female plugs may be damaged and not making full contact and causing too high a resistance tripping the breaker.

 

[kajnjim]

After removing the timer from the circuit, the problem remains leading me to believe it may be the cord. What perplexes me is the fact that it ran well for 5 months. I don't know what could have changed resistence in the cord. It is only 5 months old as well. I guess replacing with 12g will tell the story.

 

[n240sxguy]

The plug or receptacle contacts could have oxidized in that 5 months causing it to not make as good of a connection. With it running near max capacity, it could've caused a problem with tripping the breaker. What is the breaker rated at? Was the cord warm/hot? Unsure about the motor noise. The first motor made that noise for a while, and then stopped making it after it had been sitting for a couple days?

 

[kajnjim]

I would have to check to see how many amps the breaker is. (It's a breaker on a multi-receptacle port) I know it's more than what the motor normally pulls because I have also had a SWG and automated cleaner on the port at the same time the motor was running. I have inspected the entire circuit for anything that may be causing increased resistance and I can find nothing. I don't know if the cord was warm/hot prior to motor tripping the breaker as it was tripped while I was away. The first motor did and still does run fine after I replaced it 3-4 days later. When I restarted the original motor, it was connected to a 25ft 12g extension cord. I'm hoping the same will be the case with the replacement motor once I replace the 50ft 14g extension cord with a 50ft 12g cord. BTW, I'm hoping the noise is the result of the motor starving for juice.

 

[kajnjim]

Update: Problem solved! Replaced 14g ext. cord with 12g cord. Motor would still trip the breaker on the multi-receptacle port. The breaker on that port was rated at 15amps. Eliminated port and connected timer directly to ext. cord. Problem solved. Apparently, even though the pump motor is a 14amp motor, it must have been pulling a little more than 14 amps while trying to start. Breaker at panel is 20amp breaker, so as long as it's not pulling more than that it's all good. And now I have a spare pump! Thanks to all for your input.

 

[n240sxguy]

A pump can pull up to 6x it's rated amps during startup. Breakers handle this by having a thermo-magnetic trip mechanism. It will heat up during that period, then cool down afterward. With the 15amp breaker being so close to the motor full load amps, it probably never cooled enough, and kept tripping. Every time it trips it gets weaker and easier to trip the next time.


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[Kiss4aFrog]

Glad you found the problem

 

[kajnjim]

n240sxguy, Well that explains a whole lot. Maybe I should stick to trauma and leave this kinda stuff to the real electricians. But sometimes it's just fun to try and fix stuff yourself. Kiss4afrog, me too.

 

[n240sxguy]

It's fun to fix stuff and learn as you go. Electricity is one of the things you need a good understanding of before you go poking around. My mechanical knowledge came out of necessity($$); electrical came from necessity and a fun job selling industrial electric controls.


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[kajnjim]

I guess I celebrated prematurely. When I returned home from work this morning, I had no electricity in my living room which happens to be on the same breaker as the swimming pool pump motor. Yes, the breaker was tripped (I have the timer on the pump motor set to run for 12 hours at night). it's a 20 amp breaker. I tried just resetting the breaker, but it wouuldn't stay on until I turned the pump motor power switch off. I'm not sure what my next move needs to be. So if you electrical guys have any suggestions, I would sure live to hear them. Thanks again.

Jim

 

[n240sxguy]

Did you make sure the motor was still able to spin freely? You weren't vacuuming or making margaritas in the living room right? Just trying to rule everything out. What else is on that circuit?


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[gwegan]

What model timer do you have?

You should run a 20 amp circuit out there for the pool pump. Use 10 or 8 gauge. Get rid of the extension cord.

 

[kajnjim]

If I run a dedicated line to the pump, will 20 amp breaker be sufficient since that's whats being tripped by the motor now? There really wasn't much else on that circuit at the time is was tripped. Just a light fixture with 4 23 watt bulbs and a cordless phone.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

The 20 amp breaker is sufficient to run the pump under normal conditions. You've had it on a 20 amp breaker with the living room for months without a problem. Something has changed in the circuit and it's a matter of finding out what in the circuit is causing the problem.

 

[kajnjim]

Finally got to look at the pump tonight. Bypassed the timer. Ensured shaft moved freely. Turned pump on. Ran noisily for a few seconds, shut itself off without tripping breaker. Seemed like very little flow (was difficult to tell in the dark). Upon inspection of skimmer, I found this little guy had dislodged from the wall and got sucked into the skimmer! Removed it, ensured skimmer basket was clear and tried again. Ran noisily for about 30 seconds and tripped the breaker. I was initially concerned about an airlock, but there was flow, although it was very little. The filter pressure gauge needle barely moved and never reached low range set with last backwash. Reset 20 amp breaker at breaker box and tried again 3 more times with same result. Thinking my nest move will be to swap out with one of the other pumps to see if this one may have been damaged when skimmer was restricted. If this doesn't correct the problem, then I will run dedicated line to pump motor. Any other recommendations? Thanks

Jim

 

[mas985]

The original video sounds like there is interference somewhere. Have you removed the motor end cap for an inspection?