In-floor strainer lid pops off/plumbing question

[Vegasmom]

Hi all, bear with me please because I'm an idiot when it comes to technical things like equipment I'm having a couple issues, one is with the floor cleaners.

The lid to the basket for the cleaners pops off, it's happened 3 times. I don't know whether or not this last one has burned out the motor. I shut it down this morning. Has anyone heard of this happening? I've got a call to the PB for them to put a work order (our pool is only 3 mos. old)

The other thing brought to my attention by our maintenance guy (I'm doing the chemistry but he comes by to vacuum, clean filters, etc.) He says he's only seen one other pool besides ours in the 14 years he's done this (the other pool built by same co.) where the skimmer does not flow through to the filter. And the skimmer is only suctioning when the in-floor system is on. He said it makes vacuuming more of a challenge (he uses some kind of catch-all on the end of the hose) because it doesn't go directly to the filter. The result of the way our system is set up is that eventually the stuff in the skimmer winds up back in the pool via the floor cleaner. The one advantage supposedly is that there is more pressure to the floor cleaners. Possibly this is what's causing the lid to blow?

He said the other pool owner had PB re-do this. I wanted to get feedback to see whether or not this is something I should consider. Thank you for any guidance, I hope I've explained this correctly.

Here are pics but I don't know if it shows what I'm talking about (besides the lid, obviously)

 

[launboy]

I don't have the greatest understanding of in-floor systems, but what you're saying makes no sense to me. Are you saying the strainer basket on the pump is coming off? That should not happen because there should only be negative pressure in the pump basket. Can you take more pictures of your plumbing on the equip. pad from different angles?

Is the in-floor cleaner plumbed after ther main filter or is it on a seperate pump?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Vegasmom]

Hi Adam, thanks for your reply.

The in-floor is on a separate pump. The setup is shown in the top photo. The lid there is what comes off, I'm guessing when it turns on in the morning. I've checked it and made sure it's on tight, and the O ring looks good. Still waiting for Paramount to call and set up an appt.

Here is another photo I took early on during construction. Now that the wall is up it's tough to get in there. Maybe this will help:

 

[Vegasmom]

I guess I should add so you know what you're looking at:

From left to right the pumps are:

1) Spa
2) Waterfall
3) Floor Cleaners
4) Spa and Pool Main Drains

 

[launboy]

the skimmer does not flow through to the filter. And the skimmer is only suctioning when the in-floor system is on. He said it makes vacuuming more of a challenge because it doesn't go directly to the filter.

This part is confusing me... "The skimmer is only suctioning when the in-floor system is on."
Are you talking about a skimmer in the side of the pool? Is this skimmer like a dedicated water intake for that (in-floor) pump?

Also, if the skimmer is only skimming when the in-floor is on, where does the water for the normal filter pump come from? Main drain I'm guessing, but is there anothe skimmer for this pump too? If I've got this right then the in-floor is totally seperate from any other plumbing. Water enters a dedicated skimmer, flows through one pipe directly to the pump intake, through the pump and goes out one pipe to the cleaner heads.

FWIW, I don't think having more pressure to the cleaner heads would cause the top to pop off. When the pump is on, the lid, pot and basket should all be under a vacuum which, if anything would hold the lid on tighter.

Sorry for the endless questions, I just don't see eny reason fot the lid to pop off(other then it vibrating loose) with this setup if it's plumbed like i stated above.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Casey]

Vegasmom~

I have no words of wisdom for you. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are having issues with your pool after everything you've been through with this pb!

I hope you can get it figured out!

 

[Vegasmom]

the skimmer does not flow through to the filter. And the skimmer is only suctioning when the in-floor system is on. He said it makes vacuuming more of a challenge because it doesn't go directly to the filter.

This part is confusing me... "The skimmer is only suctioning when the in-floor system is on."
Are you talking about a skimmer in the side of the pool? Is this skimmer like a dedicated water intake for that (in-floor) pump?

Basically, yes. Someone came out and looked and he said he thought it was related to the water level being low. We've since discovered that my buried by the landscapers auto fill is not working. May or may not be the culprit. Maintenance guy rigged the cover with a tie cord but now the whole system is down due to?? Maybe the 8 tons of dirt and sand they dumped in fixing the waterfall and back wall clogged it up. It's kind of a mess right now but they seem like they're on it.

Also, if the skimmer is only skimming when the in-floor is on, where does the water for the normal filter pump come from? Main drain I'm guessing, but is there anothe skimmer for this pump too? If I've got this right then the in-floor is totally seperate from any other plumbing. Water enters a dedicated skimmer, flows through one pipe directly to the pump intake, through the pump and goes out one pipe to the cleaner heads.

I don't know how to answer the first part, but yes, the in floor seems separate and the flow you describe is what they've told me. As it happens, PB has decided to re-do that by adding a valve. I only brought it up for discussion because of what my maintenance guy said and he said it's no problem to change it. I said we could leave it alone if it's the right way to do it. You know everyone seems to have their differing opinions as to the way things should be done. And as I mentioned, I am clueless when it comes to equipment. I've been sidetracked this week by a death in the family so I have not had time to try to figure it out.

FWIW, I don't think having more pressure to the cleaner heads would cause the top to pop off. When the pump is on, the lid, pot and basket should all be under a vacuum which, if anything would hold the lid on tighter.

Sorry for the endless questions, I just don't see eny reason fot the lid to pop off(other then it vibrating loose) with this setup if it's plumbed like i stated above.

Thanks,
Adam

The lid will turn when it's supposed to be locked down, so I think it's probably a faulty lid. Thanks for your support and I will post back when we get it figured out.

 

[Vegasmom]

Vegasmom~

I have no words of wisdom for you. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are having issues with your pool after everything you've been through with this pb!

I hope you can get it figured out!

Thanks, Casey! It's kind of never ending Landscapers cracked my BBQ countertop a few weeks ago when installing one of the umbrella sleeves. I just wanna be done already. I will say that Smart Pools has come through in the end and they are fixing things. It probably didn't hurt that we got a lawyer involved but it was more to give them a push than anything else. There doesn't seem to be a reasonable timeline with some companies we've dealt with, but I feel we are on good terms.

 

[Guest]

In floor cleaners put a lot of backpressure and stress on the plumbing whenever the distributor changes to a different set of jets. I am not a fan of them for this reason. I am not surprised it causes the pump basket lid to pop. Check your pump for any cracks in the lid. I do think they went a bit overboard with 4 pumps for your system. Most in floor cleaners are plumbed with the main pool pump so they operate whenever the main pump is running.

 

[Vegasmom]

In floor cleaners put a lot of backpressure and stress on the plumbing whenever the distributor changes to a different set of jets.

Not sure what you mean. You're talking about the jets inside the floorheads?

I am not surprised it causes the pump basket lid to pop. Check your pump for any cracks in the lid. I do think they went a bit overboard with 4 pumps for your system. Most in floor cleaners are plumbed with the main pool pump so they operate whenever the main pump is running.

I looked it over and so did a few other people. I will check again more closely for cracks. Luckily, this is all happening when we're still under warranty. Not like most things that break around here! But your last sentence is exactly what my maintenance guy was saying. He just scratches his head and says he's never seen it done like that.

Then tonight, I go to heat the spa and the heater comes on, but no jets. So I go around to the main panel, and someone has crossed out my spa circuit with a sharpie pen.
I thought it strange when I came home earlier and the spillway was on. I didn't turn it on (hardly ever do cuz that's just more aeration which I don't need!) So someone was here, but why they fiddled with the spa is beyond me.

I'll find out more tomorrow when the plumber comes.

 

[Guest]

In floor cleaners put a lot of backpressure and stress on the plumbing whenever the distributor changes to a different set of jets.

Not sure what you mean. You're talking about the jets inside the floorheads?

Yes, most in floor cleaning systems work by directing the water to different sets of popups to direct the dirt to your main drain. Each time a different set of jets turn and and the old ones turn off a lot of pressure builds up in the system until the new jets turn on. There is a distributor that has about 8 pipes coming out of it that is the 'brain' that does this, usually run by water pressure. If you watch your filter pressure gauge as the different sets of popups turn on and off you can see the needed jump up and down. IMHO, while in floor cleaning systems do work (how well they work on each installation depends on the skill of the designer and installer, a poorly planned system might not work at all) they put a lot of stress on the plumbing that will eventually take its toll. A good robotic or pressure side cleaner, while perhaps not quite as convenient, will actually do a better job of keeping the pool clean, IMHO. (But that is really too late for you now since you drank the kool aid the builder offered you, so to speak! ) In older systems that develop problems I have heard of service techs bypassing the distributor, which deactivates the cleaning action, but lessens or solves other problems that these systems seem to eventually get.

 

[Vegasmom]

In floor cleaners put a lot of backpressure and stress on the plumbing whenever the distributor changes to a different set of jets.

Not sure what you mean. You're talking about the jets inside the floorheads?

Yes, most in floor cleaning systems work by directing the water to different sets of popups to direct the dirt to your main drain. Each time a different set of jets turn and and the old ones turn off a lot of pressure builds up in the system until the new jets turn on. There is a distributor that has about 8 pipes coming out of it that is the 'brain' that does this, usually run by water pressure. If you watch your filter pressure gauge as the different sets of popups turn on and off you can see the needed jump up and down. IMHO, while in floor cleaning systems do work (how well they work on each installation depends on the skill of the designer and installer, a poorly planned system might not work at all) they put a lot of stress on the plumbing that will eventually take its toll. A good robotic or pressure side cleaner, while perhaps not quite as convenient, will actually do a better job of keeping the pool clean, IMHO. (But that is really too late for you now since you drank the kool aid the builder offered you, so to speak! ) In older systems that develop problems I have heard of service techs bypassing the distributor, which deactivates the cleaning action, but lessens or solves other problems that these systems seem to eventually get.

Haha, no wonder I was confused. I'm thinking 'distributor' as a person or company. Duh! Well, something has gone wrong (in addition to the lid blowing) because they get stuck on one zone, and there are some that are half up, but not on.
We were kind of sold on them before because my Dad has them in his 15 yr. old pool and has not had one problem. He loves his in floors, still! When ours were working, they worked really well.

 

[Vegasmom]

Geez, I typed out this whole post and the computer black screened. Ok, long story short this time...

PB installed some more pipe and a valve so now the skimmer and in-floor system will flow to the filter. They plumbed it the original way per manufacturer's recommendation but are now re-doing them due to the vacuum issue and the fact that it's not as efficient at cleaning. The stuff being pulled in through the skimmer would get pushed out the floor cleaners and the idea was that the main drain would then catch it. Now, the skimmer suctions when the filter is on, and everything goes through there.

The floor cleaners were clogged so now they are working fine again. Still need to figure out the basket lid but it's holding for now with the ties. Thanks for the support