Critique my plumbing plan please

[exptrade]

Getting ready to add plumbing to just installed pool. I drew up something in visio and would like somebody to see if the plan looks good.

I have four 1 1 1/2" fittings and 1 skimmer. I intend to install diverter valves before and after pump. That way I can use either suction or pressure type cleaners.

Legend:

CV - check valve
BV - ball valve
DV - diverter valve

 

[jblizzle]

What type of chlorine generator is that? Is it a SWG?

I am not sure I understand the point of the 2 check valves. You could just use another 3-way on Returns 1 & 3. I would not recommend PVC ball valves as they stiffen and eventually break.

A little odd to have a suction and pressure cleaner line, but I suppose if you are using the suction line, you can always have the pressure line partly open for a normal return.

 

[exptrade]

Yes, it is salt water chlorine generator. I thought check valve had to be installed as last thing in return line. Yes it is odd, but I am not sure which way I want to go, suction or pressure cleaner, so this way i can use either one, with just adjusting the flow. Also, as far as valves goes, is Jandy brand ok?

 

[jblizzle]

Any of the pool valves like the Jandy Neverlube are good. I got some from Pentair. Hayward makes them too.

You have nothing that would require a check valve. Not sure where you got that information.

 

[exptrade]

Ok, I re-read about check valves and it does not seem in my current configuration I would need them. BTW the position was also wrong.

"Most pools have an automatic chlorination device like a chlorinator or a salt chlorination generator. The concentrated chlorine level that is discharged from these devices should not flow thru your pool equipment and for this reason the device is installed as the last unit before water is returned to the pool. To prevent water from backing up thru the system after the pump is shut off, a check valve must be installed just before the chlorination device - on the side going to your filter of heater."

Assuming that it is ok to install chlorine generator after the filter, I don't see how could it back up, since filter is much higher then the chlorine generator.
Also loosing prime on my pump will probably not be an issue since pump will be on the same level as water, maybe even few inches lower.
So my revised plan looks like this.

 

[jblizzle]

That looks good. Still could use a 3-way instead of the two 2-way valves, but either way is fine.

Also, when you do the plumbing, put the 3-ways in the orientation in your drawing, where the common pipe is the one in the middle port ... gives you the most control.

 

[exptrade]

Now that I think about, you are right, I could put a three-way one there. That way I could control the amount of flow to each pipe too. My initial thinking was that these would be there just in case a line gets a leak or something, and I could just close it. But I can do the same with three way. Chances that both line get leak at the same time are very slim I would think.

Last revision




Thank you very much for providing feedback. Now onto reading NEC 680 section and getting the list together as well as plan.

 

[jblizzle]

BTW, given that you have a dedicated pipe to each return, using 1.5" pipe should be plenty big. I would suggest using 2" on the suction lines though.

 

[exptrade]

Yes, 2" on suction, 1.5" on return.

 

[gwegan]

Several points here.

Your Skimmer line is ok. But you need to make sure your other suction line is set up and used only as a cleaner line or it must be Virginia Graeme Baker compliant. Generally that means separated hydro statically balanced and more than three feet apart each with an approved cover. Or you can use a approved pump.

It makes no sense to have the pressure cleaner before the filter. You are just giving money to the electric utility. You have to filter every day. When the cleaner is operating there is no reason why you can't filter.

NEC section 680 is not for the faint of heart. Is your pool permanent or temporary? That is the first question.

Look at these they can help:

www.mikeholt.com/download.php?file=PDF/08_Article_680_Pools_and_Similar_Installations_PART_2.pdf

www.mikeholt.com/download.php?file=PDF/08_Article_680_Pools_and_Similar_Installations_PART_1.pdf


If you ask electrical questions start a new thread.

 

[jblizzle]

Wow ... you are right I missed that the 3-way for the pressure cleaner should be after the filter. Or you will need to have an additional filter on that line to protect the cleaner.

I am also not sure about the VGB requirement in this application. There are certainly ways to make it safe without the dual wall drains or a SVRS pump, not sure if they meet whatever code is applicable to you though.

I am pretty sure there a 10,000s of pools with wall ports for suction cleaners that have no more protection than a valve at the equipment pad.

 

[exptrade]

Several points here.

Your Skimmer line is ok. But you need to make sure your other suction line is set up and used only as a cleaner line or it must be Virginia Graeme Baker compliant. Generally that means separated hydro statically balanced and more than three feet apart each with an approved cover. Or you can use a approved pump.

It makes no sense to have the pressure cleaner before the filter. You are just giving money to the electric utility. You have to filter every day. When the cleaner is operating there is no reason why you can't filter.

NEC section 680 is not for the faint of heart. Is your pool permanent or temporary? That is the first question.

Look at these they can help:

www.mikeholt.com/download.php?file=PDF/08_Article_680_Pools_and_Similar_Installations_PART_2.pdf

www.mikeholt.com/download.php?file=PDF/08_Article_680_Pools_and_Similar_Installations_PART_1.pdf


If you ask electrical questions start a new thread.

Electrical is just for my own education, need to find electrician.

As far as suction line I was planing on using it only as a suction line, it is about 6' away from skimmer and 12" from the top of the pool, as the same height as the return line. I was planning on installing something like this on it

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VU8O5I...UTF8&colid=296XHTC1JOJDV&coliid=IB5QZHLZNGPRV

I am not sure I am following your comment about pressure cleaner. I got this idea from my cousins setup. He has three way port after the pump. He uses Polaris cleaner, and no booster pump. He diverts flow to it using the valve. There is a pressure gauge on it and and an inline filter. It's been like that for 15 years. Can you explain what you ment in more detail. Thanks in advance...

 

[jblizzle]

You should be sending filtered water to the cleaner. So you either need to have the in-line filter with pressure gauge (which you do not have in your drawing) or you could put the 3-way after the main filter and not need the separate in-line filter.

 

[exptrade]

Makes sense, here are two options. I am leaning towards the second one, because I got intex salt water chlorinator, and I am not sure it has big enough throughput for cleaner such a polaris. What do you think?

Option 1



Option 2

 

[jblizzle]

I guess it kind of depends on just how much water your cleaner is going to required. If it requires most/all of the flow, then you would not be generating chlorine when the cleaner is running for Option 2. So I think I would lean to option 1 as well.

Although honestly, I am not sure if it is normal to send the SWG output through a pressure cleaner or not and whether that could cause long term damage. I would not think so since the FC output is fairly low.

 

[sargent]

It looks like you have a return right next to the skimmer. I don't think that would be a good idea. It would tend to push the water away from the skimmer.

 

[gwegan]

Either option 1 or option 2 above works. I think most PBs would go with Option 1. The amount of chlorine injected is minimal and should not affect the cleaner. A SWG is limited on the amount of chlorine it can produce. My pool is set up like option 1.

There are tens of thousands of pools with vacuum ports that are not VGB compliant. If they have a vacuum port that is ok. If they are used as a suction line (or as we consistently misstate a "drain") and were constructed or materially altered after about 2008, then most states require the drains be VGB compliant. If you are using the line as a vacuum port (it only is on when vacuuming) then its not a drain and you comply.