Pentair Panel or AquaCheck strips: Which one do I believe

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Otis Campbell

Otis Campbell

0
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 5, 2013
122
Lewisville, TX
I've been relying on my Pentair Diagnostics to measure my salt level. All summer it has been measuring 3600 or so very consistently. So I haven't added any salt since May. However I have been struggling to keep my chlorine level in the 4 - 6 range without adding chlorine. Everyone keeps telling me to add chlorine until my "SWG can keep up" but that hasn't happened yet. I'm running the SWG at 100% from noon to 8 PM every day. Neighbors with salt water pools in my neighborhood are not adding salt although their pools are generally smaller than mine by about 10,000 gallons.

Another important fact is that I've also had trouble getting my CYA up to the 70-80 range and I've assumed that is why my SWG can't keep up.

So just for fun I bought some AquaCheck test strips. This morning they gave me a reading of 2,720 and the Pentair panel says my salt is 3,650. My Intellichlor generator recommends a range of 3,400 to 3.600. So if the strips are right I need to add salt but I don't know which reading to trust.

Thanks.
 
You are only adding 2 ppm of FC a day running the SWG at 100% for 8 hours. That amount is marginal with the CYA at 60 and explains why you need to supplement with bleach.

You need to add 4 more pounds of CYA to raise it to 80 ppm. If it has been over a week since your last addition of CYA then go ahead and add some more.

You should add some run time to the system so the SWG will make more chlorine than the 2 ppm. Run the pump on the slowest speed that will still allow enough flow for the SWG to work for the extra time needed to generate the FC which will help save on electricity. If you don't want to run the pump longer then keep supplementing with bleach.

Work on lowering the pH and TA.
 
Thanks. Earlier in the season I tested how low I could go and still get the SWG to work so I'm already there. I don't mind adding the bleach.

I've been told to be careful adding CYA since the only way to get it down is to drain the pool. So I've been adding about 2 pounds a week for a month and have barely budged my level. Any ideas?

I drop MA in the pool 2 or 3 times a week and the PH comes down for a day or two and then it is back up. Trying to only solve one thing at a time but am open to suggestions.
 
Have you been backwashing at all during the time you have been adding the CYA? Four pounds should raise it a little more than 15 ppm.

How low are you dropping the pH when you add the acid? Do you have high TA fill water? Do you have any aeration happening when you run the pool?

We can work with you on the CYA and pH at the same time as the CYA is a slow process and the pH needs to be addressed daily if need be.
 
Otis Campbell said:
Thanks. Earlier in the season I tested how low I could go and still get the SWG to work so I'm already there. I don't mind adding the bleach.

I've been told to be careful adding CYA since the only way to get it down is to drain the pool. So I've been adding about 2 pounds a week for a month and have barely budged my level. Any ideas?

I drop MA in the pool 2 or 3 times a week and the PH comes down for a day or two and then it is back up. Trying to only solve one thing at a time but am open to suggestions.
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So, you know how low an rpm you can use to keep your swg making chlorine. But you'd rather buy and lug bleach rather than run it longer? My Vs is allowing the chlorine to generate at 1000rpm but I can't run it for less than 12hrs to keep up.
 
timerguy said:
So, you know how low an rpm you can use to keep your swg making chlorine. But you'd rather buy and lug bleach rather than run it longer? My Vs is allowing the chlorine to generate at 1000rpm but I can't run it for less than 12hrs to keep up.
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I'm sorry but I don't understand what your point is. What I'm trying to communicate is that until I get my CYA up I don't mind adding a quart of bleach every 5-7 days rather than using more electricity to run my pump and put more hours on my SWG. Perhaps I don't understand the economics as well as you do but it is a small amount of bleach and not much of an inconvenience.

I'd really like some help in understanding why my CYA is still too low when I have added over 4 pounds over the last month. I have not backwashed but I have had to add water as the temperature got over 100 quite a bit over that same time period.
 
My point is you complain about your swg not keeping up with your fc requirements. First you thought you had a salt problem-- you didn't. Next you thought it was because your marginally low cya was the reason. The real reason why is you don't run your swg long enough to mfg the fc you need. You're too concerned about adding hours to your cell to do what you need to do.
 

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timerguy said:
My point is you complain about your swg not keeping up with your fc requirements. First you thought you had a salt problem-- you didn't. Next you thought it was because your marginally low cya was the reason. The real reason why is you don't run your swg long enough to mfg the fc you need. You're too concerned about adding hours to your cell to do what you need to do.
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Thanks for your input. I'm very new at this and you are obviously very experienced so I appreciate your patience and willingness to help. I appreciate your advice about SWG run times. As I've posted here to understand and correct my issues no one has ever suggested that before. The general theme around chlorine levels has been that I would need to add chlorine until my SWG could keep up. No one has ever suggested I needed to work my SWG harder so it could keep up until.

If you can bear to indulge me I have several questions.

1. How do I know that I don't have a salt problem. I'm not questioning that you and ping are right I'm just trying to learn. I have two very different readings so how do I know which one is right?
2. I get that I need to run my SWG longer. When my CYA gets to where it needs to be will I be able to scale that back or not? Perhaps I need to just do trial and testing to figure that one out.

Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

ping said:
Have you been backwashing at all during the time you have been adding the CYA? Four pounds should raise it a little more than 15 ppm.

How low are you dropping the pH when you add the acid? Do you have high TA fill water? Do you have any aeration happening when you run the pool?

We can work with you on the CYA and pH at the same time as the CYA is a slow process and the pH needs to be addressed daily if need be.
Click to expand...

I added four pounds on Sunday. I'll test again this weekend. Finally getting around to answering your questions.

I drop the pH to 7.5 when I add acid. On several occasions I have added MA waited an hour or so, tested again and it hasn't been down to 7.5. So I add more MA and test again to confirm I got it down. I test a day or two later and it is back up to 7.8 to 8.0+.

I don't know if I have high TA fill water. I'll test it and report back.

I have a little aeration. I have a fountain in the spa and the spa overflows into the pool. Earlier in the summer I ran the blower in my spa for 4 or 5 days straight and the TA didn't budge.
 
Your swg will tell you when you have a salt problem. It will stop generating chlorine. And I would assume give your some kind of indicator that it had stopped. I hear the aquacheck is the best of several test strips but nowhere near as accurate as the Taylor 1766 test kit. But, whatever test you use, it's irrelevant to whether your swg will generate FC or not . Only the swg itself will determine that. If your goal is 4ppm then then you should dial up your swg to run longer. Until it keeps it there. Your goal may need to be higher though. My recommended level is 4-11. I'm running my cya at 80. Like you said, once you find out what % and runtime to use (trial and adjust) you won't have to add bleach. Aeration shouldn't do anything to TA we use it to adjust pH up without increasing TA. Your TA is already too high.
Bottom line, if I were you, I'd set it to run 100% for 12 hrs then adjust down from there. Make sure you have the right goal.
 
I have been targeting 4-6 FC all along. When I add bleach I use PoolMatch to calculate the amount needed to get the FC to 5.5 to 6.0.

I changed my schedule today. When I run the cleaner at the higher rpm it doesn't appear that the SWG is generating chlorine. So I'm running my Kreepy Krawly from 6AM to 9AM and the SWG from 9AM to 9PM.

Here are my test results today:
FC 4.5 (I haven't added bleach all week)
PH 8.0+ (very red)
TA 140
CH 300
CYA 70

So I added bleach and MA to get the FC and PH to my target. There was still a small amount of CYA in the sock in the skimmer so I squeezed the sock a few times to stir it up.

I also performed a limited test on my fill water:
PH 7.4
TA 100

I'm going to test my PH later this afternoon and add more MA as needed.
 
Running your cleaner shouldn't have any affect on chlorine generation whatsoever! Pool math says your goal should be 4-11 4 being the minimum. Your bright sun is likely using up your chlorine faster than your swg can generate it. Are you testing daily? It appears not. I have no idea what your ic40 is rated for, but if it's only at 40,000, then it might be too small --recommendation is for at least 1.5 X your pools capacity. Rating is in lbs chlorine gas/ 24 hr period.
Actually, I found it is 1.4lbs per day which increases fc by 6 in a 24 hr period 3/ 12 hrs or 2/ 8hrs (just like ping said).
 
Otis Campbell said:
When I run the cleaner at the higher rpm it doesn't appear that the SWG is generating chlorine. So I'm running my Kreepy Krawly from 6AM to 9AM and the SWG from 9AM to 9PM.
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I'm guessing that Otis sees bubbles at his return jets at low flow, but no bubbles at high flow, and thinks no bubbles means the SWG is not working. I had the same thought when my SWG was installed.

I think some of the chlorine escapes in the bubbles at low flow because I found my SWG was more efficient at high flow when the bubbles disappeared.

I mentioned this in another post and a number of folk replied they had never come across this effect before, so it may be specific to the IC40. My theory is that higher, more turbulent flow in the cell produces smaller bubbles, the smaller bubbles dissolve much faster than large bubbles, and are gone before the water gets to the return jets.

Otis, you might want to try running your SWG at a higher flow. I have an IC40 on a 20,000 gal pool and only need to run it two hours per day at high flow, however my daily FC loss is only 0.5 ppm
 
The reason I concluded that my SWG isn't generating chlorine when the cleaner is running is because the display for "Sanitizer Output" does not have any of the % lights illuminated. Normally it has the 100% light illuminated. When I had it set to 80% the 80% light was on. When I performed my FC overnight loss test and had the SWG set to 0% none of the lights were illuminated. So that is the basis of my conclusion. Not bubbles or anything else.

At 9:00 AM when my schedule changes from pump to pool mode the SWG lights up the 100% light.

My IC40 is indeed rated for 40,000 gallons. My pool size 28,000 * 1.5 = 42,000 so according to that guidance my SWG may be slightly too small. Would a 2,000 gallon variance create a significant shortfall in the SWGs ability to adequately chlorinate my pool?

I have been targeting 4-6 because that's what this sticky says to do.

Here are my test results this morning. I'm making progress on CYA and the FC is above target per the sticky. I assume that is the result of higher CYA, cooler temperatures and longer SWG run time.

I'm making some progress. Here are the test results this morning
FC 6.5
PH 8.0
TA 130
CH 350
CYA 80
 
Are the lights in a Pentair panel or on the top of your SWG?

My IC40 is not controlled ftom a panel so I rely on the bank of LED lights on the top of the SWG. There is a light that turns green when the cell is turned on.
 
I think I read the ic40 is rated at 1.40 lbs of chlorine gas in 24 hrs at 100% I don't know right now if that will keep up with daily fc loss down there since only you can determine that from experience. I'll check it out a little later.
Update:
My spreadsheet says you might expect your swg to produce 3.36 ppm fc running it for 12 hrs@ 100%. Like I said, only you can determine if that's enough to keep up with fc loss during that 24 hr period.
 
My IC40 is wired such that it has power 24/7 so the LED lights stay on all the time. The LED configuration on top of the SWG is shown on Page 7 of this manual.

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/IntelliChlorElectronicChlorineGenerator520589K.pdf

When the pump shuts off the "Flow" light turns from green to red, and the "Cell" light goes out. The "Sanitizer Output" lights and the "Salt" light stay lit continuously nomatter if the pump is on or off.

Whwn the pump is on the "Flow" light turns green and the "Cell" light turns green indicating the cell is making chlorine.

If the Sanitizer Output is set at less than 100% the "Cell" light will go blank from time to time even when the pump is running indicating the cell is not producing chlorine.

Otis, I think you said in your first post that your panel gives you the salt ppm, I don't have a salt ppm reading on my SWG so where are you getting this?

Is it possible there is a timer somewhere in your wiring that is cutting power to the SWG in the early morning?
 

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