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Thread: BBB not for every state??

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    BBB not for every state??

    I am first time pool owner and never done anything but BBB and I am starting to realize that maybe this BBB thing is not for people in some states.

    Las Vegas!

    My pool has cartridge filter and never winterizes.

    Issues doing BBB
    1) Constantly adding stabilizer to keep CYA levels up because of water replacement due to 100+ degrees and 8 hours of sunlight.
    2) Extreme salty water
    3) 5-6ppm daily Cl loss - approx $2.50/day in bleach
    4) lots of Acid because of unstabilized chlorine

    4)
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
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    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Nitz,

    BBB has nothing to do with being in a particular state nor does it have to do with any "secret" ingredients.

    BBB is simply gaining the knowledge of what's going on in your pool thru testing and then knowing what to do about it.

    If you'll post a full set of test results, lot's of folks on this forum may be able to help you understand your water chemistry better.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Yeah I know everything about it been on here reading for months and It just seems that I have hardly found anybody who lives in these extreme heat places that uses Bleach.

    Is there anything I can do about the salt?
    12,000 Gallon
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    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Why is bleach causing a problem?

    Most of the problems you listed with BBB will actually occur if you use trichlor. Every pool is different and requires its own solution, but I actually don't use BBB because I have almost the opposite of you, a sand filter, with a short swim season, in a cold climate.
    Jim

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Not that many people in the world use BBB. There are thousands of us, but still not a large percentage of pool owners. There are a couple of people from Las Vegas on the board, and many from other similarly arid states like Arizona.

    1) Replacing water after evaporation doesn't change the CYA level. It will tend to raise both the TA and CH levels, but that is a different problem. If you need to constantly raise your CYA level you probably have a leak.

    2) If there is a lot of salt in your fill water you will have a salty pool. There isn't much you can do about that. Otherwise, using BBB only results in the salt level being just a little higher than it otherwise would be.

    3) You probably should raise your CYA level. People with extreme amounts of sunlight frequently use higher CYA levels (70-80) to reduce the chlorine demand.

    4) Using unstabilized chlorine doesn't cause any need for acid. The net effect of using bleach is PH neutral. Trichlor, on the other hand, is acidic. Usually it is high TA levels that causes a need for acid.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Nitz, I had a conversation with my brother last week about Ph and Cl (we're both in LV) He insists the Trichlor pucks are the way to go, it negates the need to add acid. He never adds acid, and thinks I'm nuts for doing it every other day. He also does not test his water and thinks that as long as he doesn't have algae everything is hunky-dory.

    I know there are people on this forum that are proponents of Trichlor, maybe it will work for you. Obviously, you test and know your levels so if the CYA got too high w/ the pucks you could scale back. As far as the salty water, I've not tested for salt but know that our part of town is extremely alkaline, and high in calcium.
    No Cover Charge
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    hmmm....The CYA thing interests me...I might try to bucket test this week. How long does it usually take to tell if there is a leak?
    12,000 Gallon
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    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    The bucket test for leaks should give you a result within 24 hours.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    I'd say anywhere from 12-24 hours.

    But I'm guessing. I never did a bucket test.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    Yeah I know everything about it been on here reading for months and It just seems that I have hardly found anybody who lives in these extreme heat places that uses Bleach.

    Hmmm, both my brothers (one in Las Vegas, the other in Henderson) use only bleach in their pools with no issues.
    24ft AGP 52in deep ~13,500 gal
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    I'm from the Tucson area. BBB works pretty well for me. I have to add some acid, but I'm talking about a cup a week or so, due to the alkaline water and dust that gets blown into the pool. I have to add approximately 1 cup of 10 percent bleach a day. I don't use chlorox; I use Kem-Tek or whatever brand of pool liquid chlorine is the cheapest. I have my CYA around 40.

    Chem Geek just wrote an entry on hypochlorite reacting with CYA and causing slow degradation of CYA in The Deep End. You might want to check that out.

    The biggest benefit to this site that I have found is the education. If you need to add, say, chlorine, CYA, and lower Ph, all three, I do not see anything wrong with an occasional puck in the floater. It's just that you will have problems with the CYA getting too high if you do that too often, as well as other problems. People like you and me, who live in areas where there is a long swimming season and do not winterize, have to look even more at long term consequences of what we put in our water, especially with stuff like CYA, calcium, and minerals which are hard to impossible to get out. I also have a cartridge filter, so I don't even lose water to backwash.
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    There is a pool service in Arizona, Texas, Nevada and California called Pool Chlor that uses chlorine gas or a combination of gas and chlorinating liquid for once a week dosing of pools. They typically have the CYA level at 100 ppm in their pools and dose to 14 ppm with the result one week later being 3-5 ppm. That represents a chlorine loss of 14%-20% per day and demonstrates that a higher CYA level can protect chlorine from degradation in very sunny climates. We don't recommend going to 100 ppm on this forum, but certainly the 60-80 ppm range is something several pool owners manage effectively even with manually dosed pools. You would likely add chlorine more frequently than once a week so as to have more consistent levels, but might be able to add it every other day instead of every day.

    As was noted earlier, the main downside to higher CYA levels is that IF the chlorine level gets too low, then fighting an algae bloom is much more difficult as it requires quite a lot more chlorine. So if you want to use higher CYA levels to reduce chlorine loss from sunlight and you feel you cannot maintain chlorine levels consistently, then use of a supplemental algaecide such as PolyQuat 60 (at extra cost, of course) is an option. Another option is to have 50 ppm Borates in the pool as this also appears to inhibit algae growth.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    I am first time pool owner and never done anything but BBB and I am starting to realize that maybe this BBB thing is not for people in some states.

    Las Vegas!

    My pool has cartridge filter and never winterizes.

    Issues doing BBB
    1) Constantly adding stabilizer to keep CYA levels up because of water replacement due to 100+ degrees and 8 hours of sunlight.
    2) Extreme salty water
    3) 5-6ppm daily Cl loss - approx $2.50/day in bleach
    4) lots of Acid because of unstabilized chlorine

    4)
    Posting a full set of test results would be very helpful. I suspect that their might be some water balance issues.

  14. Back To Top    #14
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegasmom
    Nitz, I had a conversation with my brother last week about Ph and Cl (we're both in LV) He insists the Trichlor pucks are the way to go, it negates the need to add acid. He never adds acid, and thinks I'm nuts for doing it every other day. He also does not test his water and thinks that as long as he doesn't have algae everything is hunky-dory.
    And his pH will crash one day (if it already hasn't) because trichlor, while it does not need regular acid additions, does need regular additions of baking soda and/or soda ash to keep the pH stable and prevent it from crashing. If he would test his water he would find this out but they say ignorance is bliss and this is a good example.

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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    FC 4
    CC 0
    TA 100
    pH 7.5
    CH 660
    CYA 30

    Brought CYA up to 50 about a month ago. We have only had one significant Rain since then. I plan on adding 67oz of stabilizer tonight to bring to 70 and see where it gets me on Chlorine usage daily. Right now is about 160oz/day of 6& Clorox.
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    How did your bucket test go?

    I only have to add 1-2 cups of bleach a day I can only imagine how much of a pain it would be to add over a gallon daily (not the act of adding it but going shopping constantly for it).

    Have you ever considered using a SWG? If you already have salt in your water why not use it to your benefit and eliminate teh need to buy bleach all the time.
    8200 Gal Vinyl 18' AG Vogue Pool
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Never really thought about it till now, how hard is it to install is the question.
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
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    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    Never really thought about it till now, how hard is it to install is the question.
    Pretty much a snap. Plumbs in like a piece of pipe if you have a long enough straight section. There are some requirements for location because of the flow sensor.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: BBB not for every state??

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    And his pH will crash one day (if it already hasn't) because trichlor, while it does not need regular acid additions, does need regular additions of baking soda and/or soda ash to keep the pH stable and prevent it from crashing. If he would test his water he would find this out but they say ignorance is bliss and this is a good example.
    You said it. I tried to get him to come here for pool school, but he insists there is no problem. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I said Cl and Ph are 2 diff. animals and needed to be treated as such. But then, he blames his messed up plaster on his SWG (which he disconnected) I gave up.

    Nitz, what part of town are you in? Your water is harder than mine and I didn't think that was possible! Hopefully you can add in a SWG. I'm really happy with ours.
    No Cover Charge
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  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: BBB not for every state??

    South East part of town. Not sure what happened to the hardness was around 450 a few months ago.
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

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