Starting our pool -- Any comments on design

[Kath00]

We are in the beginning stages of a pool and spa project. Any comments from all of you experts? We'd appreciate any help.

Thanks, Katherine and Greg (in North San Diego)

Photos of our yard from right to left, followed by sketches we made and then to scale sketch from PB.

Our PB sketch to scale:

My sketch of the cascading, stacked rock spa and waterfall behind gazebo (not much of an artist)

 

[Kath00]

Here are some of the basics:

The pool is freeform obviously, about 42' length and about 18' max width.
Spa is 7 feet, raised about 9 inches above gazebo height, which is already about 15" above ground level.
As you can see from the pix, there is a lot of shade in the late afternoon but the sunny area by the gazebo will also be used.
We created access to the gazebo via a stepping stone or bridge over the fountain that is designed in the plans.
We have a diving rock on the left of the spa but may need to move it due to concerns about hitting the edge of the beach entry.
We'll have quartz coping in the warm rustic orange and yellow hues to match existing landscaping. It will go into the beach entry too.
Pentair equipment so far (2 of the 4x160 pumps in plans), EZ touch 8, solar, and hoping for a good pebble tec color that is deep blue.

Everything is still modifyable to so I would LOVE some feedback!

Thanks. K and G

 

[landmark218]

You have a beautiful back yard. I like the way the waterfall comes around the gazebo. Is that a taning ledge on the right side of the pool? How deep are you going? Do you have teenage kids? I wonder how long it will take for them to jump into the pool from the balcony.

 

[Kath00]

Thank you! We love our backyard except for the grass, which is well worn by our dog.

You hit on the 2 or 3 main issues I have. One is that I am worried about the depth. Where should it be deepest? In the middle? Or on the right? Yes, that is a smaller tanning ledge on the very right, where the sun shines the most in the afternoon. We are thinking 6 feet of depth but want to avoid a huge steep dropoff.

My girls are 9 and 4 so I have I have a few more years before I need to worry about the inevitable -- the balcony dive. We thought about moving the pool further away from the balcony but that would just tempt them to try it even more. We actually talked about it with our PB yesterday morning. He suggested a lock on the balcony that we hide and keep ourselves. Good idea, I thought. Don't tell me teens can now pick locks easily...

K

 

[primetime]

We are also in the very early stages of planning a pool. I have 3 boys ages 15 ,8, and 5 and a 13 yr old girl. I am going with a 8 foot deep end because I am worried that kids might hit their heads on the bottom. Already some of my oldest son's friends are over 6 feet tall. I guess with two girls you will just need to be careful when they have freinds who are boys over.

The problem with 8 feet is that you need approximately 22 feet to slope back up to 3 feet. With your beach entry it might be tough to fit in a deeper deep end.

Very nice pool design!

 

[stever]

Here are some of the basics:

The pool is freeform obviously, about 42' length and about 18' max width.
Spa is 7 feet, raised about 9 inches above gazebo height, which is already about 15" above ground level.
As you can see from the pix, there is a lot of shade in the late afternoon but the sunny area by the gazebo will also be used.
We created access to the gazebo via a stepping stone or bridge over the fountain that is designed in the plans.
We have a diving rock on the left of the spa but may need to move it due to concerns about hitting the edge of the beach entry.
We'll have quartz coping in the warm rustic orange and yellow hues to match existing landscaping. It will go into the beach entry too.
Pentair equipment so far (2 of the 4x160 pumps in plans), EZ touch 8, solar, and hoping for a good pebble tec color that is deep blue.

Everything is still modifyable to so I would LOVE some feedback!

Thanks. K and G

We're also from North San Diego (Escondido) and have just finished our pool. We have a diving pool (barely), but for non diving board pools, I prefer the deep end in the middle (also safer if there was a balcony dive...). It allows for more of a sport pool.

the plan looks great! Nove and free-flowing!

Steve

 

[Belldiver]

I would go deeper than 6' if you plan on having people diving into the pool, particularly from an elevated spot. I love the idea of a diving rock instead of a spring board. I wish I'd included one in my build. Just think hard about the depth. I know it is difficult to squeeze every single thing into a pool. 6' doesn't seem a very functional depth to me. It's too deep for anybody to stand in, but not really deep enough to dive into safely. I tend to think that zone from 5' to 8' should be as short as possible. Also, I would place the rock away from any hazards like you mentioned. Kids will be kids and the horseplay will happen wether you want it to or not. Heck, my friends are mostly in their 20's to 40's and I can't control them!

I just had my first pool party in my new pool. The deep end was a hit. There were people diving from the edges all day and I never had to worry about it. They ended up turning my 18" raised planter (which overlooks the beginning of the 8' deep end) into a diving platform though. The diving rock would have been a great addition at the true end of the pool.

I know the general slope recommended for the bottom for a diving board pool is 3/1, but mine is closer to 2/1 and I think it works just fine for a non spring board diving well. Even just 7' would be better than 6' in my opinion, but I feel very safe diving into that 8' deep end. The piece of mind is worth it to me.

Just my 2c...

Jim

 

[cobra46]

I couldn't agree with belldiver more. I just finished my 8' deep pool and absolutly love the depth. I have purposely tried to hit the bottom while jumping from the top of my waterfall and you can only do it very gently IF you try to not come up. I even tried jumping out as far as I can and it's still very safe. I will not ever worry about someone smacking their head on the bottom. That fact helps me sleep at night.

 

[Starsky]

Mine is 7' and if I had it to do over I would go 8'. I can dive in, but have to be careful about it.

 

[rhythm]

I'll cast another vote for going deeper than 6'. Our pool is only 30' end to end (water's edge to water's edge), so the PB's initial design was for a 6' deep end. But we just felt that 6' was not deep enough and went with 7' instead. I'm really glad we did. As others have pointed out, 8' would have been even better, but with the length of our pool we were concerned about steepness of slope in the 'transition' part of the pool (middle part). As it turns out, the 7' deep worked out really well for our pool, but I'd probably want to go 8' if my pool length was longer (like yours!). I think you also mentioned having a diving rock...in that case the 8' depth may be a bigger deal. 7' works fine for us, but we're not diving in from a diving rock or a diving board.

Greg

 

[cobra46]

If money was no object I would build a 40X60 pool that's about 25-30' deep. Then I could practice my free diving at home.

 

[Kath00]

My PB said not to go too much bigger because right now it is 25,000 gallons and the cost of heating is very high if it's much larger. Does that sound right?

Thanks! Katherine

 

[tcab]

You do have a lovely yard and I envy you your gazebo. We had the same problem with our grass and our golden retriever! I have 2 boys, ages 14 and 16, who both love to dive and jump off of our board. We went with an 8 ft depth for that reason. I don't know about heating costs, but I urge you to seriously consider making your pool deeper. Kids love to dive...over and over and over. My pool is 32 ft long and our drop off isn't a problem. I'd rather have the deepest portion at an end rather than in the middle. That way you'd have one end to play in and the other for diving and deep water play. You'll figure out how to handle the balcony issue, but the lock does sound like an excellent idea. Good luck and be sure to post pics. We all love watching the build.

 

[stever]

My PB said not to go too much bigger because right now it is 25,000 gallons and the cost of heating is very high if it's much larger. Does that sound right?

It is true -- but in your area you will not be heating the pool much. In the off-season you will be heating the spa, but the air is too cool to swim in the pool even if heated (IMHO) in the winter. I recommend solar to extend the season, but after 6-7 months of 80+ degree water most people are 'all swum-out'. The solar can be used to heat the spa quite nicely even off-season with just a little boost with the gas heater (the water volume is so small compared with the solar area).

Steve

 

[MEvan]

If you are having a diving rock installed make sure that your pool conforms to the NEW diving codes. Their is now what is called the diving envelope, and it encompasses about 50 measurements that must be met or surpassed. the two main ones are that you must have 7t 6 in of water depth. This is water depth, not pool wall depth. In vinyl we add in 6 inches on wall height for water depth, with gunite you may have to add more depending on the builders margin of error. The other measurement is that the you cannot have steeper than a 1 ft rise for every 3 feet of run on your slope. Your pool builder can send their blue prints to SR smith I believe to check if they are dive compliant.

I didnt see much mention of the lighting you will ahve in your pool. Dont over look that. It can make a nice pool amazing or really limit you down the line. LED lighting is very cool and eco friendly. It requires light niches and I know some builders try to use nichless lights to make things easier. Fiber optic lighting is great for perimiter and water feature lighting. It can be used to lgiht the entire pool but LED is the most modern lighting.

 

[Kath00]

Thanks for all the great comments. I appreciate it. Here is our preliminary list:

Pool size: 41x18 (max width)
112 perimeter feet
506 squ feet
7ft depth (no diving rock -- can't get it to work anywhere)
Deep end will be on right, unless you convince me otherwise.
2 intelliflo 4x160 pumps
Shotcrete 3500psi
3" suction and returns
1.5" dedicated pool cleaner suction port
3" plumbing for waterfall
1 1/4" polypropylene gas line (is this standard?)
400,000 BTU Mastertemp heater
Quad DE
2 LED pool lights (is there a difference between LED and SAM lights???)
1 LED spa light
Ozone system
Solar 90% coverage with heat return to pool bottom
Easy touch 8 controls (upgrade to intellitouch??)
Fast lane swim system this one is for me
Quartzite coping and on beach entry plus Baja step on right
2 jets on beach entry lit from below
Gemstone pebble finish
Vista path lights outside pool
?lighting of waverfall by 2 lights -- I need to ask about this
400sf artificial turf around pool areas

Any comments, thoughts?

My major question is should I get Intellitouch and upgrade the pumps to the variable speed ones (or is the 4x160 enough)? I want to be able to run the waterfall and spillway super slow and quiet (I hate noise) so I want to make sure that it is possible with my current set up. PB says Pentair is considering discontinuing their intellitouch so I shoudl stick to easytouch 8 but I can upgrade for $1000.

Katherine

 

[cobra46]

Thanks for all the great comments. I appreciate it. Here is our preliminary list:

Pool size: 41x18 (max width)
112 perimeter feet
506 squ feet
7ft depth (no diving rock -- can't get it to work anywhere)
most people jump off my waterfall and raised bond beam anyway
Deep end will be on right, unless you convince me otherwise.
2 intelliflo 4x160 pumps
I think you could get by with one 4x160 for circulation and waterfall and a fixed speed for the spa. I have complete control over my waterfall with my 4x160. At 3450RPM (maximum) it gushes a torrent of water and at around 1200-1500 it give a nice water background noise
Shotcrete 3500psi
3" suction and returns
How many returns and are they all plumbed from one line from the equipment pad. One line for each return is best and then they can be a bit smaller.
1.5" dedicated pool cleaner suction port
Are you completely sold on a suction side cleaner? The research I did indicated that pressure side cleaners work better.
3" plumbing for waterfall
1 1/4" polypropylene gas line (is this standard?)
Yes you will need a large line to run that heater
400,000 BTU Mastertemp heater
Quad DE
2 LED pool lights (is there a difference between LED and SAM lights???)
You may consider three lights since you're going with LED as they tend to not be as bright as the non LED varieties.
1 LED spa light
Ozone system
I believe most people around here don't recommend ozone systems in pools. Do a search to learn more.
Solar 90% coverage with heat return to pool bottom
Easy touch 8 controls (upgrade to intellitouch??)
Fast lane swim system this one is for me
Quartzite coping and on beach entry plus Baja step on right
2 jets on beach entry lit from below
Gemstone pebble finish
Vista path lights outside pool
?lighting of waverfall by 2 lights -- I need to ask about this
How are they doing these lights. It sounds really cool.
400sf artificial turf around pool areas
I would bet that having someone other than the PB do this would save you a few bucks.

Any comments, thoughts?

My major question is should I get Intellitouch and upgrade the pumps to the variable speed ones (or is the 4x160 enough)? I want to be able to run the waterfall and spillway super slow and quiet (I hate noise) so I want to make sure that it is possible with my current set up. PB says Pentair is considering discontinuing their intellitouch so I shoudl stick to easytouch 8 but I can upgrade for $1000.
The 4x160 comes in two models (VF and VS) both of which are variable speed. The motor and wet side are identical in both models. Others please correct me if I'm wrong but the VF's biggest benefit is that it has a built in flow meter and you can tell it how much water you want it to pump everyday and it will change the time to accomplish that

Good Luck

 

[stever]

Thanks for all the great comments. I appreciate it. Here is our preliminary list:

Quad DE
For a few extra bucks -- I'd make sure it's the 100 (largest). Lots of bank for buck.

Solar 90% coverage with heat return to pool bottom
90% is great and will work fine for you. The heat return to the bottom is a good idea, but how does this work? Is there a valve that turns with the solar valve to return it to the bottom, or does all water (heated ot not) return to the bottom (issues with skimmers).

Vista path lights outside pool
Can the Easytouch control these lights? If not, this is a good reasojn for the Intellitouch. Also with 3 LED lights in pool, the Intellitouch (so I'm told) will controll them in coordinated ways.

400sf artificial turf around pool areas
Grass right around a pool can lead to a big mess when it is trimmed. Lots of organics/dirt in the pool, etc. Fake grass would solve this problem but: It is typicsally installed with a loose material raked into the blades for a natural feel -- this can get kicked out into the pool. Also, this turf gets blazing hot -- not comfortable to lay on or stand with bare feet in the summer. (In my opinion, fake turf is a great solution if you are looking at it only).

My major question is should I get Intellitouch and upgrade the pumps to the variable speed ones (or is the 4x160 enough)? I want to be able to run the waterfall and spillway super slow and quiet (I hate noise) so I want to make sure that it is possible with my current set up. PB says Pentair is considering discontinuing their intellitouch so I shoudl stick to easytouch 8 but I can upgrade for $1000.
The VS also offers safety features that will shut the pump off if suction is obstructed,etc. Can be a pain also when you plug in your manual vacuum too fast and it shuts off.

If you don't like the sound of the spillover all the time you can add a valve to turn it off. Remember, though that you must still program it in such a way to keep it chlorinated and filled, as it will evaporate off more quickly than the pool (will stay warmer). I have mine in low-speed spa-mode for an hour in the morning and in spill-over mode for an hour in the afternoon. Both will chlorinate (once my salt goes in) and the afternoon spill re-fills it.

 

[Kath00]

Thank you for all of your replies! I am bumping this thread because we made some changes to our design. We decided to move the waterfall to the left of the pool by the existing patio. Because our view is out there, we can't make it too tall. I am guessing it will be more like 3 feet and be more stream-like rather than a waterfall. I am ok with that because it will look more natural, cut into the concrete patio that we have now (see pix above). As for the depth, we are back to 6ft. Any more and we have to do special soil testing and so on. Nightmare. We decided to stick to 6ft since my girls are less daredevils than most. If there are boys over, they are gonna be on a tight leash anyway.

The other cool thing I asked the PB to do is raise the Baja steps to 15" (to match the height of the gazebo) and to allow for a small spillway on that side now that the waterfall is gone. That little mini pool would be about 6 feet wide and about 18 inches deep. I hope that's an ok size without cutting too much into the pool. I am just not sure what sort of shape to make it (I drew it sort of like a circle). That raised baby pool is going to be where the toy house is in the very first picture on this thread.

Any thoughts or comments? We are ready to sign on the dotted line. Thanks for the above comments about the pool equipment too! Here is our new prelim sketch:

 

[eggman]

We are in the beginning stages of a pool and spa project. Any comments from all of you experts? We'd appreciate any help.

Thanks, Katherine and Greg (in North San Diego)

Judging by your pics it looks as though there is a lot of "wilderness" around your yard. Going with a beach entry rather than a tanning shelf could be a problem as any critters in the area will find the beach entry a handy place to come for drinking and bathing ... whereas, with a tanning ledge they can't access the water's edge. Just some food for thought.