Pool Leaking After Replacing MVP spider gasket

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javaverses

javaverses

0
Aug 6, 2014
49
Pearland, TX
My pool is a mess and we are trying to decide what to do next. We were having an algae problem with our chemistry getting all off when we noticed after a backwash that our pool was still leaking out the backwash line. We looked it up and found the most common problem was the spider gasket. Sure enough the gasket was warped and torn. We researched it and replaced it. I'm pretty sure we did it correctly, (glued it down with silicone sealant from leslies pool supplies, ridge side up) but in the process the screws that held the top of the mpv on became badly stripped (were already a little stripped). We also noticed that afterwards the handle was hard to switch between settings. After getting it back together we tested it and it still leaks, we also found that it leaks in recirculate setting. So we can't get the mpv open now and we cant run it without losing considerable amounts of water. Other than completly replacing the mpv I am at a loss as to what todo. In the meantime my pool has gone from kind gross to full on bad. I'm afraid we may end up needing to drain it completely. Suggestions?

Any ideas how to get the stripped screws off?
Does it still sound like a spider gasket or something else?
Can anyone direct me how to replace a mpv?

Our pool details are: 22,000 gallon ingound gunite pool running a DE Hayward filter and using a Hayward Vari-flo multi-port valve. What we plan to replace it with if it is needed is a Hayward SP0715XR50 Pro Series Vari-Flo Control Valve (newer model of the same valve we already have).
 
Not all of the Hayward multiport valves are serviceable. How old is the one you have now? What is the model number for your DE filter? You may be able to replace just the key cover and handle assembly instead of the whole unit.
 
We bought the house a year ago, but we really don't know who old the equipment is, but its pretty old by the looks of it. I added the filter and mpv info to my signature. The problem stems partially from not being able to remove the screws from the key cover and handle assembly due to the stripping on the screws. I'm afraid of screwing up the whole thing if we try to cut them out.
 
We have added chlorine and brushed the sides but its getting so dark and green, I don't think its doing much good with out the filter running. Does anyone have a link to a video or how-to on replacing the mpv for a de filter? I've looked but can't find one. Thanks for the quick replies!
 
SLAM (Shock Level and Maintain) is a procedure, it's not just add chlorine to shock level and let it go, it's really important to maintain the shock level, that's what's killing the nasties quicker than they can multiply. The reason you maintain you kill the whole colony, not just knock it down.
 
bobodaclown said:
SLAM (Shock Level and Maintain) is a procedure, it's not just add chlorine to shock level and let it go, it's really important to maintain the shock level, that's what's killing the nasties quicker than they can multiply. The reason you maintain you kill the whole colony, not just knock it down.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks, I realize it. Its just that is all I can do right now with out the rest of the stuff needed, like the testing kit and working equipment. Working on doing it all by the book, just need to get the other stuff and working equipment first.
 
We finally got the screws off and replaced. Checked out gasket, it was dirty, but otherwise seemed fine. It didn't seem to have moved. Cleaned it off, lubed it and replaced lid and tried the recirculate setting, waited 5-10 minutes, fine, tried the filter setting, waited 5-10 minutes , fine. Left it to filter and after about 2 hours checked again and it was gushing out again.

When we installed the new gasket originally we used a silicone sealant recommended by Leslie's on bottom part of the spider gasket on the outside edge only (not on the spokes). They told us not to use it on the spoke and not to use any lube (said it was already lubricated?). When we pulled it apart the second time we decided to lube the top part, this made it easier to turn the valve handle. The upper potion of the valve seemed to be in good working order. We tested the handle while it was off to be sure it was turning. We think we re-installed it correctly (made sure that the odd notch was lined up so that the directions corresponded with the correct pipes).

Can anyone help tell me what we should try next? We really are out of our league, but can't afford to call a repair guy in right now.
 

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If you needed to replace the multiport valve it should just unscrew from the side of the filter housing.

I can' find a DE-4800 but Hayward has a manual for a DE-4820 http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/ProGrid-DExx20.pdf that is a 48 sqft and 96 gpm and uses a 2" valve :lookhere: https://www.google.com/#q=SP0715XR50 or a 1.5" valve :lookhere: https://www.google.com/#q=SP0710XR50+

Pictures of the valve might help if you end up taking it apart again.
Did the spider gasket you installed fit properly ?? If it's leaking it comes down to bad new gasket, something is cracked or it's not tightening down properly.

Just to make sure, you only change position with the pump off and you always turn it in only one direction and that same direction each time ??
 
kiss4afrog said:
If you needed to replace the multiport valve it should just unscrew from the side of the filter housing.

I can' find a DE-4800 but Hayward has a manual for a DE-4820 http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/ProGrid-DExx20.pdf that is a 48 sqft and 96 gpm and uses a 2" valve :lookhere: https://www.google.com/#q=SP0715XR50 or a 1.5" valve :lookhere: https://www.google.com/#q=SP0710XR50+

Pictures of the valve might help if you end up taking it apart again.
Did the spider gasket you installed fit properly ?? If it's leaking it comes down to bad new gasket, something is cracked or it's not tightening down properly.

Just to make sure, you only change position with the pump off and you always turn it in only one direction and that same direction each time ??
Click to expand...

I was afraid we would have to cut pipes to change it out. That's a relief!

The gasket fit perfectly, no wiggle room, except on the spokes (very little) that we did not apply sealant to. I think in the morning I am going to try to remove it again and add sealant to all the spokes as well as the outer edge. Just to try it before spending more money on it. I'll take pictures to show what I'm doing. As far as we could see from our visual inspection, nothing appeared worn down or cracked, and seemed to be tightening properly (other than the original gasket that was messed up).

We have always been careful to make sure the pump is off before changing the mpv, although we didn't know about moving it only in one direction until the first gasket went bad. Since we did our research and replaced it, we have only moved it in a counter clockwise direction (don't know if that matters, but that's the direction we chose to be consistent).
 
Doesn't matter which direction you choose as long as you always follow that clockwise or counter clockwise direction.

Maybe you should watch a couple youtube videos on gasket replacement to see if anything pops up you didn't know or shows something to look for when you have yours apart ??
 
I have a few new question and I don't know if I should open a new thread or just keep with this one. If I am posting this wrong, please just let me know, I really appreciate all the help I am getting here.

First of all, I took the whole valve cover and handle assembly down to my pool store today and had them replace the springs, gaskets, o-rings and such. After re-installing it, it seems to be fixed. No water leaking when it shouldn't be.We are tentatively watching and moving forward with getting our pool back from swampy mess.

I picked up the most complete testing kit they had on hand - Total Poolcare DPD Test Kit - Taylor Unsure what # contains the following tests -
Chlorine (Free, Combined, Total) using R-0001, 0002, 0003
pH Test (R-0014)
Acid Demand Test (R-0015)
Base Demand (R-0016)
Total Alkalinity (R-0007, 0008, 0009)
Calcium Hardness (R-0010, 0011L, 00120)
Cyanuric Acid (R-0013)

It also contains a multicolored instructions, a ph double sided pinkish test tube, CA viewer tube, a larger ml tube, and a small mixing bottle. I don't know exactly what else I need and might be missing from my kit. It seems like there is a wheel that should be here but isn't. Anyways I will need to get a better one soon, but I haven't had time yet to test on my own yet. Their testing showed the following :

FAC 0
TAC 0
CYA 25
TA 100
pH 7.6
TDS 600
Pho 100

After a thorough cleaning of the DE grid I want to get my water back on track and I have the following supplies: New: Baking Soda, Bleach (6%), DE, Natural Chemistry Instant Pool Conditioner, Left over from using the pool stores recommendations: Muriatic Acid (Liquid) Leslie's Power Powder Plus Shock (Calcium Hypochlorite) , Leslie's 3 in Triclor Tabs (Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione),Natural Chemistry Pool Perfect + Phosfree. I plan to order online the Borax, but can not seem to locate it locally so far (checked Walmart and home-depot).

??First question: I am not where to start with the chemistry. Pool store says shock and get rid of the algae, then add conditioner. But it seems like without conditioner then the chlorine won't last long enough to make too much difference. Suggestions?? Before all this we had some black algae growing, I don't see it now, but its probably lurking in the muck. We are attempting to switch to the BBB and SLAM method of doing things and I want to get off on the right start. So question is where do I start??

Right now before we start treating the water again we are completely cleaning our DE filter, following the tutorial ya'll provided here http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/72506-DE-Filter-Cleaning-Tutorial. My next 2 questions regarding this is:

1) The tutorial says to use 10 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid. I am using a large clean plastic trash can to soak them. How would I be able to know how much acid to use, can anyone could give me a good guesstimate??

2) In hosing down the filter grids (which are stained and stiff, but did not appear torn, I am going to have the pool store inspect them tomorrow after I soak them over night) I noticed what appeared to be very small black rocks ( smaller than the end of a pencil eraser, but larger than the tip of a pencil) loose on the inside of the DE grid. Is this normal, has anyone encountered this. Should I keep hosing until I get rid of them, or even worry about it. I can't find anyone mentioning this in my readings.

Thanks in advance for all of your guidance!!
 
Use a graduated bucket or a gallon milk container or whatever to measure how much water almost or just barely covers the grids and then divide by 10 and add that much acid. Remember to always add acid to water.
 
Good job keeping your thread together.

That test kit is only missing the dpd drop test for cl. Tf test kits sells that as a standalone test.

Don't trust the pool store test. Cya is the most important and the one they get wrong consistently.

Do your tests and post the results then we can make recommendations.
 
javaverses said:
Pool store says shock and get rid of the algae, then add conditioner. But it seems like without conditioner then the chlorine won't last long enough to make too much difference.
Click to expand...

Will wonders never cease, a pool store that gave correct and good advise !! You want to have some stabilizer/CYA (conditioner) in there to stop burn off from the sun but you don't want to have much. If you have close to 30 you would be good for now. It allows the bleach to be more effective as the higher your CYA level gets the more bleach you need to kill the same amount of algae, more $$$ to do the same job.

When you get some more muriatic acid you might want to bring the pH down to 7.2 BEFORE you start the SLAM. Once you start to slam you can forget about testing pH as it won't be reliable after the FC goes above 10ppm.

Well, 20 to 1 is still better than nothing and they'll be a lot cleaner after you're done. :goodjob:

Here are some videos on doing the tests. Hopefully it will help build some confidence. I'd run your own CYA test to confirm that you really are at 25 before you start the SLAM. https://www.youtube.com/user/tf100testkit?feature=results_main
 
Update:
I finished completely soaking (dish detergent 3 hrs, weak acid bath over night) the filter, added my DE, ran it for a few hours. My starting PSI was a 8. After a few hours we jumped to a 20 (very dirty pool), so we backwashed, rinsed, and added more de. The PSI was a 7. That when we discovered that the valve failed again and had to shut it off. I have cleaned the spider gasket, cleaned the inside of the valve, removed the old sealant, reattached it with new silicone sealant, lubed the top side of the gasket with pool gasket lube. I am going to wait a little while to let it have a chance to cure. I also rechecked the handle, which seems to work better than when it is in the port. The lever wasn't spring back tight when we were turning counter clockwise. I know it not suppose to make a difference, but when I get it back toga=ether I am going to only turn clockwise and see if it makes a difference, if the handle feels tight like it is suppose to. If this doesn't work, we are just going to have to buy the top part.

I have my robotic pool cleaner running to try to keep water somewhat circulating and clean up some of the alage.

In the mean time I am trying to get ready to SLAM for the first time, and I just took my first set of test (except for FAS-DPD which my pool store doesn't carry apparently).

MY results are as follow, hopefully I did and read it right.

CYA ~ less than 30 ( the dot got cloudy but never obscured)
DPD Test CC & FC - 0 (came out clear)

pH - 7.8
Acid demand 4 drops got me to 7.2, a 5th drop brought it closer to a 6.8

TA 90 ( 8 drops was light pink, 9 it was red, directions said mult by 10)

CH 140 (14 drops till it turned blue, mine still had a lot of floating stuff that was red, but the water turned blue, I am assuming it probably just algae particles that caught the dye?)

OTO Test TC - 0 (came out clear)
pH - 7.8

I input it to the pool calculator and got this: test 1.jpg

So should I go ahead and add MA to lower pH, and start trying to SLAM, or work on correcting any of the other chemistry problems (CH,CYA,TA), or wait and just try to keep chlorine in it till I can get my valve fixed???

Thanks
 

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