Help me with my Pool Bid Quote and Bid please.....

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fudgebar

0
Jul 25, 2010
180
North Bergen, NJ
Hi folks, Im wondering if you can:

A- Help me further craft this bid message out to my pool builder that was reffered to me on these forums. I tried to cover everything but can you see anything I should add/remove?

B- Can someone please tell me what should be an accurate estimate for this pool build?....Is it realistic to get under 30K in NJ?

Apologies if the formatting gets screwing...I cut and pasted it from my Outlook draft
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Hi, I was referred to you from a satisfied customer on an internet Pool Builder and Info forum. I have been researching the specs for the pool at several pool forums over the last few months assembling the different components. I would like to build starting in AUG/SEPT 2014. I’m in the town of Dumont, NJ

To be upfront, I have bid this job to a few pool builders as well. If you earn the job, I would agree to pay 25% up front, 50% after backfill, final payment upon final inspections. (Or a similar agreeable payment plan)

As I mentioned below, based on your quote, and the remaining available budget, this job may also include decking and coping (approx. 1200 sq feet)

If you could provide a quote, it would be appreciated. My name is Lisa and you can also reach me at 201 xxx xx…Thank you

Pool
• 13 x 25 In ground pool 90 degree radius rectangle pool
• 28mil vinyl liner
• 13’ steel steps under liner across shallow end
• 2” plumbing all separate home runs back to base
• Vermiculite bottom
• Steel A Frame construction with concrete collar
• 3/8 clean stone backfill
• 2 x Skimmers
• 3 x returns
• 1 x dedicated pool cleaner line install on the center deep end
• Safety Suction Grate
• Maintenance Test Kit, Hand Skimmer, Brush and Pole

Equipment
• Pentair variable flow Intelliflo VF pump
• Pentair DE FNS 48 Filter
• Pentair 400k BTU Natural Gas Heater
• Pentair Intellichlor Salt Chlorine Generator IC40
• Pentair Kreepy Krauly Racer Automatic Cleaner
• Pentair LED Color Lighting
• Pentair Easy Touch Automation (sized to control all listed equipment)

Installation
• Gas Line less than 40ft
• Electric 90amp outdoor sub panel less than 20ft
• Basement exposed and easy access to electrical and gas meter

Cover
• Loop Loc Safety Cover installed

* Decking and Coping possible based on pricing and remaining budget
 
HELP Please....Is this POOL BUILDER a PRO or is he givin me the BUSINESS!?

Folks, I sent out an email to a pool builder in North NJ with some specific details of the Pool I am trying to build, and he replied with the following response. Im torn down the middle with some of the answers because some of the stuff I learned here might contradict some of his responses, but some of his responses also made sense:

"Thank you for your inquiry on having our compant install an in-ground steel wall vinyl lined pool.
You make no mention as to fill removal from site so I am assuming it remains on site. I am also assuming we have 12 ft. minimum access to pool site area.
Our company does not use flexible PVC due to the problems associated with long term use. Therefore "Home Runs" are not done. We only use 2 inch rigid PVC pipe which takes considerably longer to install. We install dual bottom drains over 3ft. apart for safety and to give the pool 100% circulation, not side wall suctions. We also only use Pentair's VS-SVRS variable speed pump for the safety factor of having a built-in SVRS. We do not recommend nor use gravel as a backfill material as to prevent having water build-up around the pool. Re-cycled concrete is a much better choice.
Our price for installation of the pool and equipment outlined by you and assuming we have proper access to the site and all fill is remaining on site, would be $44,640.00. Payment provisions are as outlined in our formal contract.

10% Deposit
65% of remaining portion at arrival for excavation.
30% at arrival to install liner.
5% less $250.00 at installation of faceplates.
Balance of $250.00 at final inspection.
All terms of formal contract would apply.

The things that have me concerned are the following:
-The Price! (about 10k higher than other quotes!)
-We do not recommend nor use gravel as a backfill material as to prevent having water build-up around the pool. Re-cycled concrete is a much better choice. Is this accurate??
-Our company does not use flexible PVC due to the problems associated with long term use. Therefore "Home Runs" are not done (what does this mean??...you cant do homeruns back to the pad with Rigid PVC?)
-We also only use Pentair's VS-SVRS variable speed pump for the safety factor of having a built-in SVRS (I asked for a Variable Flow Pentair pump...is this also a VF pump?)
-Finally, the payment plan is a little concerning....there is only a balance left of $250 at the final inspection??


Folks, please help me out here......Are these valid concerns or is this builder completely spot on??
 
Re: HELP Please....Is this POOL BUILDER a PRO or is he givin me the BUSINESS!?

One thing I can tell you, the VS and VF pump are not the same. The Pentair VF also has built-in SVRS. But, a lot of pool builders don't like to sell the VF because if used incorrectly it can send way too much pressure through the lines.

I would not accept a remainder of $250 at the end. I would pay half up front with a letter of credit from the bank stating you have the funds to pay the remainder upon completion and acceptance.
 
I would avoid this builder.

You want rigid PVC, not flex. However, plumbing with rigid is not difficult and only takes a slight bit longer. They should home run as requested. Refusing to do that is nonsense.

If SVRS is required then you have to have it, but otherwise it should be avoided. I strongly recommend against SVRS. It is very trouble prone. It is well worth the extra trouble to avoid having to use it.

65% before excavation is extreme. 90% before they will install the liner is common, though not a good thing for you. Typically money is spread out more with payments when it passes inspections (for example).

The gravel vs other materials thing gets debated a lot. Builders tend to be set it their ways. A wide variety of things all seem to work.
 
Fudge -

First, I would get a second quote for comparison. It seems prices are very regional, so I can't expand on whether that is a good price for that pool/equipment related to your area.

Here, in Las Vegas, I would consider that price to be high, and from what I can gather, that does not include a spa. Like I mentioned, before doing anything with that builder, I'd get a second (third or fourth if available!) quote for the same build. Then you can compare and contrast.

Have you ever considered subcontracting the pool yourself? I bet you can save a very large chunk by overseeing the project yourself. The downside is not having a pool company to fall back on for hiccups along the way, plus the additional leg work you'll have to do yourself. Just an option!

And yes, I agree that a measly $250 leaves you with far too little leverage when the project is in the final stages.
 
Guys I really appreciate all the help you have given me in such a short period of time.....

This builders quote, with the changes he suggested above was approx 10k more than 2 other quotes I recieved which where closer to 35k

Im really only looking for a 12x24 or 13x25 pool and dont think I really want 2 main drains and many builders I have gotten quotes from also said they would do either or when it comes to Flex or Rigid, they didnt care and some builders actually told me the good Flex PVC was more expensive for them so they would prefer I chose Rigid!

Should I be frighted about his statement of avoiding 3/8 clean stone because it tends to hold water around the pool???.........I never really heard about the technique of using recycled concrete???

Some builders want to just backfill with the dirt...if I plan to backfill a vinyl pool in Sept and use paving stones as my decking in the following spring, is that recommended to avoid issues with collapsing/sinking deck issues? Or should I avoid dirt back-fill altogether?

Finally, does my request below to pool builders make sense or should I change it up?:
• 2 x Skimmers
• 3 x returns
• 1 x dedicated pool cleaner line install on the center deep end
• Safety Suction Grate

Thanks all for your help....as a reminder im in the NY/ NJ area
 
There are a lot of add-on's in there that bumps the price up. That's why your over 30k. Get as many estimates as possible.

I'm on Long Island. Our pool is vinyl liner/concrete wall. 16x36. 2 sets of steps, 2 skimmers, main drain, 6 returns. 2 lights. Diving board, handrail and De filter. 17.5k

I did electrical myself with SWG and pro-logic panel.
 
If I were you I would not get a drain. One skimmer would be enough, but having two gives flexibility if the wind changes direction (I have one on my pool). I think 3 returns is right.
I would not get the cleaner line or the Kreepy Krauly. I might get a robotic cleaner, but no need to get it from the builder.
I would not get the safety suction grate. I think those are for spas, and I did not see you are asking for a spa.
I would not get a variable speed pump. I would get a small (3/4 or 1 hp) two-speed pump.
I would not get a hand skimmer. Those are useless in my opinion. I would get a leaf rake. But you can buy those yourself at Lowe's or Home Depot probably for less than what the builder would charge.
You could probably save a little money by getting a sand or cartridge filter instead of DE.
You might save some money by not specifying a brand name for the equipment. Hayward, Pentair, and Jandy are all pretty much the same quality. Let the builder go with what he is familiar with.
 

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thanks for the tips.....any more?

Also quick question, does it make sense to wait until after the summer to search out a few more quotes?.....Can I expect the pool builder prices to come down a bit in anticipation of demand slow down?

Do you think Im getting these quotes when the demand is very high and everyone wants one during this heat, and they are generally very busy so their pricing would reflect that?..............what do you think?
 
If I want to try to shave off some money on this pool build and the pool builder doesnt want to reduce his profit margins at all, looking at my specs, what would you start changing out or removing to get me down in price?

Do I really need to do the Pea gravel/ 3/8 Stone Backfill?.......Is it that bad to just backfill with the dirt in NJ? Im doing the build in Sept, so most likely I would go thru the whole winter and not put down decking and patio until the next spring. And if Im not doing the deck with concrete and am using paver stones, does it even matter?

thanks
 
JasonLion said:
I would avoid this builder.

You want rigid PVC, not flex. However, plumbing with rigid is not difficult and only takes a slight bit longer. They should home run as requested. Refusing to do that is nonsense.

If SVRS is required then you have to have it, but otherwise it should be avoided. I strongly recommend against SVRS. It is very trouble prone. It is well worth the extra trouble to avoid having to use it.

65% before excavation is extreme. 90% before they will install the liner is common, though not a good thing for you. Typically money is spread out more with payments when it passes inspections (for example).

The gravel vs other materials thing gets debated a lot. Builders tend to be set it their ways. A wide variety of things all seem to work.
Click to expand...

If any contractor asked for 65% before excavation, I would laugh in his face and ask him where it said sucker on my shirt. That's insane.
 
Are there different kinds of FLEX PVC?.....Most Vinyl Pool Builders I've gotten quotes from all use Flex PVC in NJ and NY......a few have said its the stronger GREY FLEX (dont really know what that means tho) A few said that Rigid can shatter in the cold temps...(dont know if that is true)

thoughts?
 
Folks, One Pool Builder wants to build with exclusively all Hayward, and the other with all Pentair.....can someone please brief me on the PROS and CONS of each?

Some say the Pentair is the better Pump & Motor, Heater, Filter, and Salt system....But also I have heard that once you have problems with Pentair equiptment, all the parts are very expensive to replace. So Im asking someone who may have used both to please give me some high level recommendations on what they prefer....or are they both very comparable?
 
All my vinyl pool builders are using FLEX PVC....and even one of them said its the stronger Gray FLEX (Is that true??!) I dont know anymore!!

Should I be that paranoid of using FLEX PVC if most of the Pool builders are using it in NJ???..........they even say its more expensive then Rigid PVC. Why would they use FLEX if it really was more expensive, if it wasnt just as good, if not better?
 
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