Swamp pool

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lancina

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Jul 2, 2014
9
West Seneca, N.Y.
I am so glad that I found this site!!! I wish I had found it sooner. I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my TF-100 test kit and it cannot come soon enough because my pool looks like a swamp.

I am new to owning a pool. I bought my pool in July last year and we only swam in it for about a month.

The people from the pool store came and opened the pool in late May of this year and everything was great except the pool is mostly in a shaded area and was always cold (we live outside of Buffalo, NY) so we decided to install a heater.

When we purchased the pool, we were given test strips to keep an eye on the chemicals and were talked into a Pool Frog "to take the guess work out of chlorinating the pool." I had been testing the pool almost daily with the test strips to make sure the chemicals were good but the pool seemed to be really cloudy. I took a sample to the pool store and was told the chlorine was too high to check any other chemical levels (because it had been recently shocked) so they suggested I put clarifier in the pool. Thinking I was receiving good advice, I put some in the pool and it seemed to make it worse. I went back to the store a few days later, had the water rechecked and they told me everything looked good (except the water was too soft for a pool with a heater). Then they told me that I was suppose to be putting algaecide in the pool weekly, which I was not. They also sold me a little packet of clarifier to put in the filter basket in addition to the Ortex algaecide. I went home, put an 8 ounce "initial" dose of algaecide (per the instructions on the bottle) and clarifier packet in the pool and the next day my pool was swamp green. That was 2 days ago.

While waiting for my TF-100 to arrive, yesterday I added 3 gallons of chlorine (10% Sodium hypochlorite - 2 gallons at 2pm and 1 at 7pm), brushed the pool and I ran the filter all night. This morning, there was no change. I brushed the pool and added another gallon of chlorine.

Am I doing the right thing by adding all of this chlorine while waiting for the test kit to arrive? Could the green be a reaction from the clarifier and algaecide? My feeling is that the nice warm water from the recently installed heater was a breeding ground for the algae and my test strips were not giving me accurate enough readings to keep the chlorine in check, despite having the Pool Frog. Any thoughts??

In Buffalo, swimming season is so short and I really want to get the pool clear again. Any advice would be so much appreciated! :)
 
Any chance you could post whatever ingredient info the algaecide & clarifier had on the packages ? At first glance this could either be algae or a reaction to something like copper in the algaecide...

Was the pool store testing CYA regularly, and if so what were the results ? 3 gallons of 10% is enough to take your FC to ~16 which is a decent SLAM level if CYA is low (although if you do have algae the FC will get used up quickly -- the test kit will let you maintain it). If CYA level is high then you'll need a higher FC level and more chlorine to even get started.
 
The clarifier ( Sparkle - Super Clarifier) oddly enough does not specify the ingredients. On the bottle it states that it is a flocculent and it removes excess metals. The Concentrated Algaecide - Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chlorides (49.8%), Methyl Benzyl Ammonium Chlorides (0.2%) and "inert" ingredients (50%). There is not mention on the bottle about copper.

Here are all of my numbers from the printout at the pool store on 6/30 -
FC - 1.2
TC-1.2
CC-0.0
pH-7.4
Hardness - 100ppm
Alkalinity- 59 ppm
Cyanuric acid - 70 ppm
Copper, iron, total dissolved solids - tests not run
 
Thanks. Unless someone comes in and says "the green sounds like something other than algae" you'll want to start a SLAM as soon as the test kit arrives. If your CYA really is 70 (which seems high but not impossible given your history) then you should think hard about doing a partial drain & refill (between 1/3 and 1/2) to get the CYA down to 30-50.

Probably best to wait until the kit arrives and re-test the CYA levels before you drain/refill though, just in case the pool store tests were way off. If you have any older test reports saved away the CYA levels from those would be informative.

In the short term that means you're probably not adding too much chlorine, although if you are going to do a partial drain/refill that's an argument for not adding a lot of chlorine before it arrives.

I'm thinking "keep adding a gallon a day, keep filter running, keep brushing, then go crazy once the test kit arrives and you have solid test results".
 
Thank you for your response!

My husband just came back from the pool store. He had the water retested AGAIN. Here are the results:
FC - 6.3
TC - 6.3
CC - 0.0
pH - 7.5
Hardness - 90
Alkalinity (with stabilizer correction) - 87
Cyanuric acid - 10 (How could it have dropped so drastically in 3 days???)

They gave him 4 gallons of 12.5 % chlorine and told him to shock the pool tonight but no to run the filter until the water is a milky color. I really do not have faith in these folks anymore. From what I have read, it is strongly advised not to shock when the CYA levels are 0 - but what about 10? Based on this, would you still advise the 1 gallon a day? (UPS says that my test kit is not scheduled to arrive until Tuesday due to the holiday).
 
The CYA reading being so different is proof that pool store testing isn't even worth the price they charge. I would love to hear their reasoning for telling you not to run the filter. Why would you not want your water circulating so the chlorine can hit every spot?

Since you really have no idea what your CYA is you can't start the SLAM yet. Adding a gallon of chlorine a day can possibly keep it from getting worse, but it will not start getting you ahead. You don't want to fully attack it until you have a full set of results from your TF-100. Stock up on chlorine, if the pool store has good prices you can buy it there but do not let them test your water or sell you anything else. Big box stores usually sell the 10% stuff, or just get regular bleach, but you will want to have a lot on standby for when the SLAM proper starts.

Finally, rip out that *%&^ pool frog. The mineral pac is constantly adding copper to your water. The chlorine pacs are horribly overpriced and you don't want to use the trichlor tabs in them anyway. I had one and took it out as soon as I found this site, strongly recommend you do the same.

You can fix your pool and the SLAM will help you get clearer water than you ever thought possible. Have patience, don't try to rush it. Avoid the temptation to listen to pool store advice if you start to get discouraged. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of examples of people here that were in your same situation and got out of it. You are no different than them, you have the same ability as any of us and can absolutely do this!

And welcome to TFP!
 
What Donldson said. Your CYA probably didn't drop, you just have inconsistent test results. That's why I was asking if you had any older test results squirreled away in a pile somewhere -- looking at a sequence of test results can sometimes offer useful clues about what the real levels are, although that's still not as good as having your own high quality test kit and knowing how to use it.
 
Oh you poor thing! BUT you are here now and have a test kit on the way! Soon you will have a clear pool and will never have to go to the pool store again!

Look around and see where your best price for chlorine/bleach is. Make sure you check the % Walmart great value is 8%, some pool stores have 11 or 12%. Check to make sure it is easy to get and in your price line.

Kim
 
So, my TF-100 test kit arrived in the mail today. Since I last posted, my husband threw quite a bit of chlorine (4 gallon 12.5 %) and then 4 bromine packets in the pool in an attempt to keep the algae at bay. The water is still cloudy but not swamp green anymore. I am guessing this is still an indication that there is still algae in the pool.

Here are the numbers from today's TF-100 test:
pH 7.2
FC 7.5
CC 0.5
CH 150
Alkalinity 90
CYA 50

At this point, what would you recommend? Should I SLAM the pool tomorrow and keep checking the FC levels??
 

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lancina said:
and then 4 bromine packets in the pool
Click to expand...

Can you grab the packets and confirm what was in them (sounds like sodium bromide ??). I know VERY little about bromine but AFAIK you just *might* need to do something different if you have bromine in there. Don't worry, but let's check just in case.

In general though the numbers look good and going ahead with a SLAM sounds right. According to the CYA/FC chart at http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/128-chlorine-cya-chart-slam-shock (Pool School => Handy Reference => CYA/FC) your FC level at CYA 50 is 20.

If you have bleach handy, starting the SLAM tonight would be even better. Do the FC test again, use PoolMath to figure out how much bleach you need to get back up to 20 (feel free to post the numbers you get if you want a second opinion), add that much bleach, leave pump running, then repeat first thing in the morning. If possible test every hour or so at first until the FC levels don't drop so fast.

Were the numbers you posted from before or after the bleach & bromine were added ? Just checking ;)
 
So here is my update:
Water was still cloudy this am. My husband did not run the filter last night and vacuumed the pool first thing this am. He was able to get some stuff off the bottom of the pool that had settled during the night. I began the SLAM process this morning.

!0:30 am - FC levels 6.0 (down from 7.5 last night)
I added 393 oz 8.25 bleach at 11:00 per the Pool Math recommendations based on CYA level measured at 50 last night.
11:30 - rechecked FC levels and they were 28 ( I was expecting to see a number close to 20 based on the Pool Math recommendations.
I will recheck FC again in an hour.
 
Sounds good. I confirmed that 393 oz is correct, so maybe the bleach wasn't evenly mixed yet. Are you running the pump continuously now ? The fact you only lost 1.5 ppm of FC overnight is a good sign.

Thanks for checking the packet... looks like the following link, right ?

http://www.aldenleeds.com/products/details/bromineinitiator-1/

If so, that is definitely sodium bromide and I definitely have no idea if it changes anything with the SLAM. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will jump in. Assume it doesn't change anything unless you hear otherwise.
 
Yes, that is the exact product that was added.

The pump will be run continuously throughout the SLAM process.

Update:

I checked the FC again at 2:45 and it was 21. My pool is in a very shaded area, so I was surprised by how much it had dropped. I knew I was going to be gone a while late this afternoon and I did not want the levels to drop below 20, so I calculated a goal of 28 in Pool Math. It told me to add 196 oz of 8.25%. I added 191 oz and rechecked FC again before I left at 3:30, the FC was 32!!!! I think I screwed up somewhere. Will this harm the pool?
The pool was also brushed at this time. I will check FC again this evening.
Thank you Brigman for all of your guidance with my pool. I really appreciate having someone to guide me in the right direction.
 
Seems like you're doing everything right with the calculations, so if your FC level is going higher than expected that usually means your pool doesn't hold quite as many gallons as you think. My impression is that above ground pool capacity ratings are for when you fill them enough that the water bulges over the top of the walls, so nobody ever actually manages to get that much water in there.

For a 27 foot round pool (I don't think 27 foot pools are actually 27 feet either) with 4 feet of water PoolMath says 17,100 gallons. You probably have a 52" depth but water is a few inches below the top ? That wouldn't account for the difference you're seeing, but is there a chance you're sampling water at different depths or different points around the edge of the pool ? If so you might be getting different concentrations of bleach -- so try obsessive consistency for a bit and see if that helps. Alternatively just plug 15,000 gallons into PoolMath and see how that works - it's less work than obsessive consistency ;)

The "mustard shock" level for your pool is 29 for your CYA level, and that's the usual "try not to go above that too often" level.

I imagine the FC level is dropping because it's killing algae & trying to break down their little carcasses more than because of sun. You can tell by doing an overnight test -- measure FC after dark (or at least late evening like you did), then again first thing in the morning before the sun has a chance to do anything. That tells you how much you're losing to algae or raccoons washing their dinner in your pool -- the rest is from sunlight.

Is the water looking any better ? Should go from swamp green to cloudy green to cloudy blue, then hang around in cloudy blue state for a while as the filter clears out the dead algae and you get frustrated. Around the time you're about to give up and/or are not speaking with your husband any more, the water will get clear.

Still hoping someone who knows about bromine can comment on whether the packs of sodium bromide are anything to worry about...
 
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