CYA out of control...among other things

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kcindc said:
Well, with a CYA that high, the water won't "look" good for very long.
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Every morning when I wake up and everyday when I get home from work I have this terrible feeling that I'm going to look out and see a swamp. I don't see how the previous owner was maintaining even close to the required minimum for FC...and even if he was semi-trying to do so, it was all pucks and granular dichlor so it would have just kept getting worse. Maybe he was just shocking the **** out of it with the dichlor every few days and that was (unintentionally from his perspective) keeping it near an appropriate level.

More bizarre is the pool went unattended after we moved in and yet it was crystal clear the whole time...like a week or two after we moved, the FC measured under 1.0 and still was fine. Now a couple weeks later it's been under 10.0 for over a week now and crystal clear. Extremely fortunate I guess...
 
What is your pH reading? When I moved into my home the CYA was over 300 and the pool was so acidic I couldn't even get a reading on pH or TA, but like you the water was crystal clear. Can the acidity keep algae at bay?
 
Granny said:
What is your pH reading? When I moved into my home the CYA was over 300 and the pool was so acidic I couldn't even get a reading on pH or TA, but like you the water was crystal clear. Can the acidity keep algae at bay?
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I don't think the acidity can keep it at bay at levels that won't destroy surfaces/equipment. I've had PH between 7.1 and 7.6 since I've been regularly testing.

Here were yesterday evening's full tests:
* PH = 7.2
* FC = 3.7
* TA = 95
* CH = 675
* CYA = >250 (did not reach 100 line with 2:3 dilution)
 
Vyrolan said:
I also still don't know how to know how far I can drain the pool without any problems. I'd like to bring it down like halfway or even further and just get new water but I don't know if that's safe.
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My pool guy says I can safely drain as much as I want...apparently the water is pretty low around here (city rules suggest drilling wells to a minimum of 150 ft) and he said it also has a pressure relief valve in the main drain to let ground water into the pool if necessary...does that all make sense to the experts here?

So I should be able to drain at least half and refill with 3 trucks (to lower CYA to ~180) or even drain two-thirds and refill with 4 trucks (to lower CYA to ~120)... Then with the drain/fill over the winter it will be all normal next year. Anyone thoughts/opinions/suggestions on approach?
 
Even if you drained 2/3rds now, you will still have very high levels that are at unmanageable levels for next year. I couldn't image how difficult it would be to open a pool with a CYA of 120.

I needed to drain my IG gunite pool when I bought my house. It was a foreclosure and the pool was severely neglected. I paid a pool company to completely drain, inspect and acid wash. I could have drained and acid washed myself, but I didn't want to risk my pool floating. I made sure they were licensed and insurance. They took on the liability. It cost me more, but it worth the peace of mind in case something went wrong. Have you thought hiring a pool company to drain and refill it for you? This way they take on the liability of the pool floating?
 
kcindc said:
Even if you drained 2/3rds now, you will still have very high levels that are at unmanageable levels for next year. I couldn't image how difficult it would be to open a pool with a CYA of 120.
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Well with a 2/3 drain, it would drop to around 120 now... Then there will be some drop over the winter (at least that is what is always reported...some magical bacteria that eats it over the winter)...but even if there is not, the pool will be drained partially for the closing, and it will be further drained by vacuuming to waste when it is opened next season. I can just make sure that between the closing and the opening that roughly half the water is again replaced. So 2/3 replace now drops it to 120....a 1/2 replace at next open would drop it further to 60 which is fairly close to ideal. I can measure it at opening to know for sure how much to replace at that time.

kcindc said:
Have you thought hiring a pool company to drain and refill it for you? This way they take on the liability of the pool floating?
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Well this pool was not really neglected like in your situation...the guy was actively maintaining it and using it but just always just using trichlor pucks and he had kind of let it go in the last few months (likely since they put the house up on the market). They have had the regular servicing done including extensive cleaning when it was professionally closed and opened (which it always has been)...so I don't think it's in such a horrible condition. How much did it cost you to have them do it all? I'm clearly open to the idea of doing it since I'm willing to pay over 1000 bucks for trucked-in water...
 
Our situation is definitely different and just wanted to throw the idea of having a company drain the pool to help limit your liability if the pool floated. I work in litigation and am risk aversed.

I paid 1250 to have my pool opened (it was winterized), drained and acid washed, but this price included some chemicals to adjust the water, replacing my single main drain with code compliant main drain with two separate drain covers. This price didn't include water as I was able to fill from municipal water. I live in a higher priced area for pool work (Washington DC metro) and I also had a lot $$$ of other work performed at the same time, so take my quote for what it is worth.
 

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Update!

So I replaced a bunch of water with trucked-in water...which worked out MARVELOUSLY because the replacement water only had a CH of like 125 which is waaaay lower than my well.

Here's new readings:
* PH = 7.0
* TA = 70
* CH = 320 (actually inside the recommended range! hopefully can top off with rainwater some to keep it from increasing too quickly via well)
* CYA = 60 (better than I hoped...I was only expecting it to drop to ~80)

I poured in ~6ppm worth of CL partway through the filling, and after it was full and circulated for an hour or two, I was reading FC=5 and CC=1. The water was fairly cloudy so I put in few more gallons of 12.5% to bring it up towards shock level overnight. This morning CC was ~0 (tiniest tinge of pink) and FC was about what I would have expected from last night's additions. Unfortunately filter turned off due to its regular schedule (blah)...back on this morning and we're gonna brush regularly and let it filter to clear it up. We've got the spa going nonstop for aeration to raise the PH (don't want to use chems if don't have to since I like the TA level).

At what point should we clean out our cartridge filter? Normal pressure from brand new filter was ~11...it's now ~14.
 
Vyrolan said:
Update!

So I replaced a bunch of water with trucked-in water...which worked out MARVELOUSLY because the replacement water only had a CH of like 125 which is waaaay lower than my well.

Here's new readings:
* PH = 7.0
* TA = 70
* CH = 320 (actually inside the recommended range! hopefully can top off with rainwater some to keep it from increasing too quickly via well)
* CYA = 60 (better than I hoped...I was only expecting it to drop to ~80)
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Great Job!!!!


Vyrolan said:
At what point should we clean out our cartridge filter? Normal pressure from brand new filter was ~11...it's now ~14.
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Now, clean it out when you have a 25% increase in pressure. For you that would be about 3 psi rise, or 13 - 14psi total
 
That is great news! Glad to hear that you are in on your way to a trouble tree pool experience!


Vyrolan said:
Unfortunately filter turned off due to its regular schedule (blah)...back on this morning and we're gonna brush regularly and let it filter to clear it up.
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Since your water is a little cloudy, you want to keep the filter going 24/7 until you finish SLAMing your pool.

Here is the SLAM article from pool school

You pass the SLAM when you meet all three of the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT) criteria:
CC
  1. is 0.5 or lower;
  2. You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
  3. And the water is clear.

When all three are true, you are done SLAMing and can allow the FC to drift down to normal levels.
 
kcindc said:
Since your water is a little cloudy, you want to keep the filter going 24/7 until you finish SLAMing your pool.
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Yep I kicked it back on this morning and we're going to let it run 24/7. I think we need to clean the cartridge though...it's a pretty new one (brand new a few weeks ago), but I think all the muck from the cleaning and then all the new water has the filter clogging up. We're getting the light dust-like stuff that falls out especially in the shallow end where the circulation isn't quite as good.

We're brushing it regularly; my wife is doing it while I'm at work, and she's also going to pick up something we can use as skimmer socks so we can put those on tonight to help filter a little faster. I ordered one of those AquaComb nozzles from Amazon with one-day shipping so tomorrow we'll clean the cartridge. Of course we'll be keeping the FC up around 40% CYA for the duration. We bought 25 gallons of 12.5% on sale from Menards in anticipation. =p
 
Pool was looking much clearer when I got home...can easily see the grill on the main drain in the deep end (8.5ft). Schedules are disabled so filter will run 24/7. PH slowly rising (up to 7.2...hope high chlorine isn't messing test up too much). Chlorine dosed back up for SLAM (had dropped to FC 12 and CC was at 1). Brushed everything, fixed the Polaris and put it in to vac and stir everything up...and we even put knee highs on both skimmers.

Gonna do some more brushing before bed and double check FC again. Tomorrow time to clean the cartridge. We may actually have some decent weather this weekend so hopefully everything continues going well.
 
2 ideas i have had to drain water if i have to (i also have cartridge filter with no backwash) is to either hold my vacuum hose up to one of the return jets and see if it will shoot out that

my 2nd idea is to remove one of the jets and screw in a pvc fitting then attach to vacuum hose to that

which leads to my next idea, how to create a jet remover from a piece of pipe with notches cut in the end to unscrew the jet with
 
Just wanted to finalize my own thread...with the brushing, skimmer socks, and Polaris, we were able to get the water clear super fast. It's now beautiful and my wife has agree it looks amazing (hopefully she'll be even more impressed when I add the borates with the boric acid I already have waiting in the garage). I've had ~0 FC drop overnight both of the last two nights and CC has also been ~0 (last night the tiniest tinge of pink...night before nothing at all).

Obviously buying around 28,000 gallons of fresh water made this a faster/easier fix, but it's nice to know we can maintain easily moving forward and not worry about future issues. Next up is buying/installing the Stenner pump! I figure if I intentionally--er, accidentally--mess up a few articles of clothing with bleach, she'll see that the Stenner is totally worth it. =)
 

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