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Thread: recommend a filter please!

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    recommend a filter please!

    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft on one end and 6.5 ft on the other end. I bought it used 3 years ago and we have been doing good but this year I am going crazy (cloudy then green, then cloudy again, now cloudy and green!) .

    It came w/ a 1.5HP pump and a 130lb sand filter. I have it hooked up in the shallow end. I know this is not adequate for the size of pool we have (right?)

    there is a place on the opposite end for another filter set up....should I ADD another pump and filter (I have another 130lb sand filter and a 1 hp pump already) to the other end. OR should I ditch both of them and just upgrade to one larger pump/filter? If thats your answer tell me what I need!
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    I'm no expert on these matters but I would think you would save energy costs by upgrading to a more efficient and appropriate sized filter, rather than running two pumps. I think your pump is fine, maybe you just need a bigger filter, so that would keep the cost down a bit. I'm preferential to my cartridge, but I think you can keep your 1.5 hp pump....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    I'm no expert on these matters but I would think you would save energy costs by upgrading to a more efficient and appropriate sized filter, rather than running two pumps. I think your pump is fine, maybe you just need a bigger filter, so that would keep the cost down a bit. I'm preferential to my cartridge, but I think you can keep your 1.5 hp pump....
    I have always had sand filters (I grew up w/ a pool and it was my responsibility to clean it ) so I am leaning towards another one....I am just wondering if with a pool this size it would help keep it clean if I had one at each end as opposed to just a bigger one at one end. KWIM? It seems like alot of my problems start in the deep end and I guess I am just thinking it is because it is so far away from the pump/filter....
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Yes, I do know what you mean... I take it the deepend has no bottom drain? Improving circulation in the deepend is always a good idea....like I said I'm no expert so I'll let others chime in (Hello, Waste!) I just don't know if with your set up 2 pump/filters or just one larger filter would do the trick.

    People tend to stick with what you know. If I were to get a new pool, I would likely go with cartridge again, cause that's all I know....LOL
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Yes, I do know what you mean... I take it the deepend has no bottom drain? Improving circulation in the deepend is always a good idea...
    no we did not put in a bottom drain....thats why I am thinking adding the second pump filter to the deep end might be a good idea! But in the end is that ENOUGH for a pool this size?!?
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Someone with more knowledge will be along shortly, I'm sure. While youre waiting, update your signature to include your pool specs and equipment, esp. gallonage, and you do that in your "profile"...that way the specs are on each post and easier to find.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    doughboy,

    What is your goal? To get your pool water clear? Your pool probably suffers from lack of chlorination rather than a lack of filtering capacity. If you could post a set of test results, including CYA, it would give everyone some insight into your problem.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Dave has a point....I should have caught that.

    How are you testing your pool? What are your results, and are you using the BBB method?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    doughboy,

    What is your goal? To get your pool water clear? Your pool probably suffers from lack of chlorination rather than a lack of filtering capacity. If you could post a set of test results, including CYA, it would give everyone some insight into your problem.
    I can get it clear. We have been clear a few days then we go back to green or cloudy. I need to upgrade my filter to KEEP it clear when it gets there this time. My husband thinks it is our sand but the sand was replaced last year so I am not agreeing with him there.

    Chlorine is so high it is causing my son asthma problems when he goes in the yard. Definitely not a chlorine problem. I have had low pH this year as of a couple hours ago is up to 7.0. I just dumped 4 lbs of baking soda in again today.
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyowner
    Chlorine is so high it is causing my son asthma problems when he goes in the yard. Definitely not a chlorine problem.
    High chlorine levels practically never causes asthma. Asthma nearly always happens when the FC level is too low and you have CC. Adding more chlorine clears up the CC and solves the breathing problems.

    Algae problems have nothing to do with the filter, they occur because the FC level gets too low. You need to be adding enough chlorine daily and not have too high of a CYA level.

    It would be a big help if you could post a full set of test results. That would tell us a great deal about what is going on.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyowner
    Chlorine is so high it is causing my son asthma problems when he goes in the yard. Definitely not a chlorine problem.
    High chlorine levels practically never causes asthma. Asthma nearly always happens when the FC level is too low and you have CC. Adding more chlorine clears up the CC and solves the breathing problems.

    Algae problems have nothing to do with the filter, they occur because the FC level gets too low. You need to be adding enough chlorine daily and not have too high of a CYA level.

    It would be a big help if you could post a full set of test results. That would tell us a great deal about what is going on.
    I hate to disagree with you but chlorine is a known agitator of asthma and can cause occupational asthma.

    http://www.aquasanastore.com/water-facts_b07.html
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    The article you posted shows the causation linked to CC's not the use of Chlorine itself....

    A direct quote: “It isn’t just the exposure to the chlorine that is causing asthma in swimmers. [What is] more important is the chemical reaction that takes place when chlorine mixes with sweat, urine, skin, and hair, and releases derivatives such as aldehydes, halogenated hydrocarbons, and chloramines, all of which contribute to asthma.”

    If your son is having issues, it is likely you may have high CCs which is also part of your greenwater problem, which means you need more chlorine....enough to rid your pool of the CCs and kill the algae. Not maintaining a high enough FC means algae and CC's which is likely the situation in your pool, and like Jason said, it probably isn't the filter.

    I understand your hestitation given the asthma situation but we do want to help you. The best way we can do that is for you to share your test results.

    There was another recent thread regarding this topic, it was almost always related to CC's and poor ventilation in indoor pools.....I'll see if I can find it.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    here is what the strips just read....

    CL is above 10 (they only go to 10 and this is MUCH darker than 10)
    PH is 7.2
    ALK is 150

    now that is compared to 6 hours ago I was at ph 7.0 and alk 140....before 4 lbs of baking soda. It is not my chemicals I am concerned with.

    I am looking for advice on filters. should I upgrade to 1 big filter in the shallow end or 2 smaller filters 1 in shallow and 1 in deep.
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    The article you posted shows the causation linked to CC's not the use of Chlorine itself....

    A direct quote: “It isn’t just the exposure to the chlorine that is causing asthma in swimmers. [What is] more important is the chemical reaction that takes place when chlorine mixes with sweat, urine, skin, and hair, and releases derivatives such as aldehydes, halogenated hydrocarbons, and chloramines, all of which contribute to asthma.”

    If your son is having issues, it is likely you may have high CCs which is also part of your greenwater problem, which means you need more chlorine....enough to rid your pool of the CCs and kill the algae. Not maintaining a high enough FC means algae and CC's which is likely the situation in your pool, and like Jason said, it probably isn't the filter.

    I understand your hestitation given the asthma situation but we do want to help you. The best way we can do that is for you to share your test results.

    There was another recent thread regarding this topic, it was almost always related to CC's and poor ventilation in indoor pools.....I'll see if I can find it.

    my sons pediatrician has told us many times that we need to limit his exposure to our pool because his asthma is severe and the chlorine can cause attacks. Everytime I shock the pool (or bring the Cl level to shock level) he has trouble breathing. I know that for MY son the CL level has an impact on his asthma.

    this is the part of the article I was trying to point out

    Although chloramines and Trihalomethanes (THMs) have long been known to be agitators of asthma and its symptoms, studies have now proven that these harmful chemicals may actually cause asthma in previously healthy individuals.
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Here it is....

    is-chlorine-safe-t8084.html

    Scroll down and note Richard's post (#5 at 1:08.)....

    No one wants to debate this issue with you or try to convince you otherwise, you have a right to your opinion based on your experiences with your son and of course his health comes first.

    That being said, the experts on this forum want to help you sort out your situation, they think (and I agree) there MIGHT be a clue in your water chemistry. We can only ask that you share it with us, so that we can give better advice. Your test results could turn out to be normal, how would we know?

    Edit ~ Test strips are notorious for being inaccurate. While I appreciate that you shared them, you need a better testing method, you may have to go to the pool store to have them test for you.

    You need a test that shows FC and CC, as it could be the CC that is causing problems. And you "may not be concerned" with the chems...but you water balance is clearly off if your ph was 7.0 and your TA was 140.

    I would think you would want to understand what chems you are putting in your pool and why, what effect they have on your pool and understand why there may be a relationship to your son's breathing troubles, and how you can minimize any troubles in the future. And I understand that you think a larger filter may be the solution, but it also may not be that simple, it could be more about the water chemistry then anything else.

    That's my opinion, take it or leave it, and please forgive me if I offended you, that is not my intent.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Here it is....

    is-chlorine-safe-t8084.html

    Scroll down and note Richard's post (#5 at 1:08.)....

    No one wants to debate this issue with you or try to convince you otherwise, you have a right to your opinion based on your experiences with your son and of course his health comes first.

    That being said, the experts on this forum want to help you sort out your situation, they think (and I agree) there MIGHT be a clue in your water chemistry. We can only ask that you share it with us, so that we can give better advice. Your test results could turn out to be normal, how would we know?

    If you choose not to, that's fine, maybe someone will be along to offer their opinion on whether it's a filter issue.
    I postedi t...its a few posts up
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: recommend a filter please!

    You seem convinced it's an undersized filter issue, and that you like sand.

    So buy a bigger one and try it?

    As for recommendations, stick with a well respected brand (pentair, hayward) and look for a multi-port valve for easy backwashing, etc. Size? Get the biggest one you can afford.

    You can also try the DE trick of adding enough DE to your sand filter to raise your PSI by 1, which may catch some of the more fine particulate.

    However, I agree with others, ditch the strips, they are inadequate. Get a good test kit, run a full set and post up your numbers.

    What are you using to for chlorine and shock?

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Getting one better/larger filter is much simpler than having two filters, and will work just as well as, or better than, two smaller filters. Moving the filter to the deep end of the pool might help just a little bit. For the best possible circulation, you want the return to point to the side and down into the deep end of the pool. There isn't any way to do that from the shallow end.

    However, improving the filter will not solve any of the issues you have mentioned in any way.

    One important distinction you are failing to make is between free chlorine (FC), combined chlorine (CC), and total (TC). Your test is measuring TC, which is the sum of FC and CC. CC is the part of TC that causes problems. FC does not cause problems. When FC levels are maintained appropriately the CC level will go to zero and the problems will go away.

    Chloramines, and the trihalomethanes present in swimming pools, are all CC. You can get rid of them by using more chlorine and maintaining the correct FC levels. To do that reliably you need to have a test that distinguishes FC from CC, which your current test does not do.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyowner
    I postedi t...its a few posts up
    I saw it too late, and I edited my post.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: recommend a filter please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeball
    You seem convinced it's an undersized filter issue, and that you like sand.

    So buy a bigger one and try it?

    As for recommendations, stick with a well respected brand (pentair, hayward) and look for a multi-port valve for easy backwashing, etc. Size? Get the biggest one you can afford.

    You can also try the DE trick of adding enough DE to your sand filter to raise your PSI by 1, which may catch some of the more fine particulate.

    However, I agree with others, ditch the strips, they are inadequate. Get a good test kit, run a full set and post up your numbers.

    What are you using to for chlorine and shock?
    my question is should I put ONE big filter on one end or 2 smaller filters on both ends. is your response that you think 1 big filter would be better than 2 smaller ones?

    What is the DE trick?

    I just had a full analysis done at the pool store over the weekend and he said everything was fine except my PH was a little low (he got 6.8 ) my results matched his that night so I am pretty sure that I have resolved the PH issue as it was just 7.2.

    chlorine we have 3 inch tablets in floaters at all times. We have 6 floaters w/ 3 tablets each.
    shock I bought a 5 lb thing of shock from Meijers and have been using bleach ever since just to keep it up.
    I have a 21x41 oval doughboy it is 4 ft at one end and 6.5 ft at the other end. I am currently using a 1.5hp pump w/ a 130 lb sand filter. No I do not have a bottom drain.

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