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Thread: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

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    h2ctpdjl's Avatar
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    NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    I have converted to the BBB method. I have printed and read your TA articles, including the one by waterberar on lowering the TA. My current TA is 230, PH has been lowered from previous 7.5 tp 7.2/7.0, using 68oz of Muriatic Acid. I don't have the best aeration methods, but currently aerating to bring pH back up to 7.6. There is a storm brewing in the horizon and I dont think I will have enough time to do all this. It sounds like this is a long, drawn out process, is this correct? I don't have a clue as to how much acid I am eventually going to need. Does this need to be completed all at once? Is it safe to assume there will no swimming until I complete this process. based on the low pH now? I am getting more and more confused and unsure of myself.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    You are doing fine. It is a long, drawn out process that can take days depending on your aeration method.

    It is fine to swim anytime while doing this. pH of 7.0 to 7.8 is perfectly fine. It is also fine to walk away from if for a day or two and continue later.

    Get a couple of gallons of muriatic at a time. Seems like most folks use 2-6 gallons to get where they want to be.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    A storm might actually help you; it tends to aerate the water, and some rain is acidic!

    A lot of people here have posted TA readings a lot higher than yours before they start lowering. My own TA is a little on the high side, but it has never gotten above about 150. Anyway, as long as you keep the Ph in balance, which is more difficult with a higher TA, you won't even notice anything is out of balance when swimming.

    Don't make things too difficult on yourself. You've read the articles, so you know that, while you want to get your TA lowered, it's not something that needs to be done overnight.

    edit: When I put in muriatic acid, I usually put in a cup or two at a time. Your pool is amost twice the size of mine, so you will put in more at a time, but you really don't want your Ph to get below 7.0.

    Can you turn a return eye up so the water breaks the surface? Or maybe make or buy a fountain?
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

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    h2ctpdjl's Avatar
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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    My IG does not have "eyes" so to speak. It has a large inlet/skimmer combo on the side wall, with main inlet on the bottom of the deep end. The inlets are narrow but long. I have attached pics of what I have managed to do as far as aerating. I took the little hose that USED to run water over my trichlor tablets in a separate skimmer compartment and ran the hose out of the skimmer into the pool for aeration. plus I have added the sump pump to the step of my pool and have the water dropping back into the pool for aeration. When it rains, i close my automatic pool cover so the rain doesn't leech out my chemicals and add debris to my pool.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    You will need far more aeration than you currently have to move your T/A.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    I also have the sump pump on the steps, throwing water up and back into the pool. If this isnt enough, then I guess I will have to use good ole 20 Mule Team Borax to raise the pH each time?
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    then I guess I will have to use good ole 20 Mule Team Borax to raise the pH each time?
    Nope, that won't work......your T/A will come back up. Reread waterbears article. The only way to permanantly lower T/A is thru aeration.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    I have been looking at it again since my last post. It sounds like i am caught between a rock and a hard place then.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    No, you can do it. First of all, T/A of 230 is not earthshaking. It's high but it's not critical that you get it down today. Search "aeration" or "aerating" on this forum and you'll find all sorts of fountains and home made devices people have used to bring their T/A down around 100.....an ideal number.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    I have looked at many configurations, but all appear to be attached to round inlets - which I do not have. My inlets are under my skimmer - as indicated in my previously attached pic. I am not mechanically inclined, I am a 61 yr old grammy doing this on her own. SIGH. I dont plan to give up, but unsure of an alternative to my dilemma.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    Maybe buy a fountain from the pool section of Target or something?
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    They dont attach to my inlet configuration. I added a sump pump "fountain" to the pool and ran it all night last night, to no avail. It also rained, and the pH has not risen at all. If I cant raise the pH back to 7.6, I cannot complete the process of lowering my TA of 230. It doesnt appear that the BBB process is going to work for me.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    I wouldn't give up on BBB!....not being able to raise your PH one night is not a reason to abandon the BBB method. Have some POP and research all the aeration methods described on this forum, there has to be something that will work for you. Aeration can be a slow process for some, fast for others, it just depends on the pool. As was stated above, 230 is not critical that you need to go in panic mode to find an alternative solution....stay the course, you can do this....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    Keep at it.. it took me several weeks, lots of aeration, and a couple gallons of MA to get my TA to 120 from 280.
    2003 Coleman MAAX Collection Model 706 - 400gal

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    Thanks for the encouragement, but aeration is my problem. So far, I have no way to do that. My son has looked at the pvc water pipe attached to my slide. It runs under ground from the pump , up through the concrete at the base of the slide and up, and has pretty good pressure. He is going to try to attach some fittings onto the slide's water line to see if we could divert the water from the slide (as needed) and have the water run to a small fountain. Other than that, I am out of options. I know aeration is the answer, but if you have no means of doing that, there is nothing you can do. I also learned that my skimmer/inlet combo is an Aqua Genie.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    Do you have a compressor? Works great if you do. Kids splashing and playing is another great source for aeration.
    2003 Coleman MAAX Collection Model 706 - 400gal

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    no compressor. I wouldnt know how to hook it up if i did. there is normally just me, sometimes my two grandaughters. its been no help though.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    The slide plumbing idea sounds like it has potential, I'd keep focusing on that....good luck!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    another idea for you, get a submergable pump (such as used in ponds and water features). Get the biggest one you can find/afford. Attach a hose to it and put the pump on the steps of the pool. fix the hose so the water shoots into the air as high as possible and falls back into the pool at an angle so it disrupts the surface of the water as much as possible. I would not swim when it is in the pool for safety reasons but when you are not swimming it can help with the aeration.

    As far as that goes, even without aeration the pH will rise, just more slowly, so you can still lower the TA. It will just take longer. Just monitor the pH and when it is around 7.6-7.8 add acid until it drops to 7.0 then wait for it to climb again. Getting in the pool and having a 'splash party' is a fun way to aerate, btw!

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    Re: NEWBIE - TA and Muriataic Acid

    Thanks for your suggestion, waterbear. I have a submersible pump for my pool cover and ran it on the steps as you suggested for 24 hrs, to no avail. However, I did not have it shooting up into the air. I ran the hose down the slide to create a waterfall, to no avail.

    I am pleased as punch to hear that the pH will rise on its own. I wasnt aware of that. I thought the only option was for aeration, which I have not managed to accomplish! That makes me feel better, as I am determined to be BBB! My pool is sparkling and not only does it TASTE like water, it also FEELS like water now!

    I went into a pool store today to purchase a fountain and the smell of chemicals was overwhelming! That is what my pool USED to smell like! Gross! Even my little 5 yr old grandaughter wrinkled her nose up at the smell.

    I spent 17 months in Iraq to be able to afford my pool. It is something I have always wanted. My son and daughter-in law and two grandbabies live four houses down from me. My pool is for all of us to enjoy.

    I hope to be able to send pics of a newly installed fountain and NEW higher pH readings soon (and eventually, much lower TA reading) once my fountain is installed. I have purchased numerous fittings in preparation for the "procedure". However, I am not dillusional to think we arent going to have to make multiple trips back to Lowes to buy other fittings in order to get the job done. I have my fingers crossed that we are going to be successful!

    I have promoted this website to all of my frustrated pool friends. It is indeed wonderful.
    18,000 gal, 18x32 IGP, vinyl liner, 3 to 5.5ft depth. One inlet/skimmer (Aqua Genie), one main drain. Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter w/filtration rate of 20 GPM/FT, Two-Speed Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump, Natural Gas Hayward H200 pool heater, Aquabot T2 (200 Series) Robotic Pool Cleaner (my best friend), Automatic Electric Pool Cover (2nd best friend).

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