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Thread: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

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    Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    I have restrained myself from posting my pool issues in the hope that things would evenually work out, but I have been struggling with greenish pool water for over 7 weeks now. First a little background...

    I underwent the Baquacil to BBB conversion on my 24 foot above ground pool when I opened it Memorial Day weekend. I did not treat the water last fall when closing the pool, anticipating this spring's conversion. I did have to add at least 1/3 fresh water in order to get the skimmer running. The water was clear. Bacquacil tests showed 0 levels. The conversion went well, quickly running through the various (and much anticipated!!) color changes. The water never did leave the slightly green tint stage however.

    Over the past 7 weeks I have read and reread all posts and sticky's regarding treating of my pool water. I have raised chlorine levels to shock levels several times and maintained them at these levels for well over a week each time. I purchased a TF-100 kit and have already had to order a refill for the FC/CC tests. CC numbers have ranged from 0 - .5 but never higher. I changed out the filter sand after the conversion was completed and backwash as needed. I also have brushed the pool repeatedly.

    My current numbers are as follows (taken at 11:00 PM):

    FC 3.5 (was 6.0 24 hours ago)
    CC 0
    TC 3.5
    pH 7.5
    TA 110
    CH (not tested since this is a vinyl liner)
    CYA 30

    The CYA level is a little surprise for me tonight since it had been around 42 or so. I did add muriatic acid to lower my PH earlier today, though I'm not sure if this would have any effect. I'll have to test it again.

    Any thoughts on how to get to the sparkling clear water everyone in the family is anxious to see??

    Thanks,
    Phil
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Hi phil280zxt Welcome to TFP! 8)

    It would help much if you include your equipment and pool size in your signature by going into your profile and filling that stuff in. You can get there by clicking on User Control Panel at the top left hand corner under the TFP logo.

    We'll want to know if you have a DE, sand or cartridge filter and how many gallons the pool holds.

    If you are green, I suspect algae and a good brushing 2 times a day at shock level. Algae hates being brush!

    As far as CYA going down....
    Has anyone been in the pool? Have you lost any water due to rough play a.k.a. splash out? Have you been backwashing? These two things could contribute to a lower CYA level but I'm only guessing at this point since I don't know what you are using to filter the pool.

    Someone should be around to help you out more but in the mean time, get your info set up!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Phil,

    You need chlorine in your pool. Organics (algae) cannot exist in the presence of high doses of chlorine and your doses have not been high enough to kill them off.

    Use Jason's calculator and put in enough bleach to bring it to 20ppm and KEEP IT THERE UNTIL YOUR POOLS CLEARS. I cannot emphasize enought how important it is to keep your FC up at the 20ppm level.....constantly. A one time dosage of high chlorine is not enough to clear your pool. The FC has to be brought to shock level and then shock level has to be maintained until.....

    A. You hold FC loss to 1.0 or less overnite
    B. Your CC's test .5 or less
    C. Your water is sparkling
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my situation Casey. I've updated my signature to reflect my pool characteristics.

    I began another round of shock treatment after posting last night and will accelerate brushing to twice daily. My FC's only dropped by .5 as of this morniong. I, like others, have cleaned out the local Walmart's Chlorox supply repeatedly other the past several months but I will stock up once more.

    The pool has seen very little activity over the summer, the kids are getting older, and I have had to top off the pool a few times over the past week. This may explain the sudden drop in CYA.

    I will keep you posted on my progress.
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Just saw your post Duraleigh, thank you. As I explained in my first post, I have maintained my pool at shock level for a week at least twice during this period, though I was aiming at 15ppm. I'll have to increase it to 20 ppm for this go around.

    I have seen the three indications of victory listed in other threads. I seem to be able to meet the first two, but #3, sparkling water, keeps evading me.
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Phil,

    Are you testing FC with an FAS/DPD chlorine test?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Are you running your filter 24/7? If not, what is your filter run time?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Yes, I am using a FAS/DPD chlorine test. I've already had to order refills for the TF-100 test kit. LOL

    I normally run the filter from 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM, but since the conversion I have been running it 24/7.

    Question, when the algae is killed off, will the pool water change to a cloudy white or will it retain a green tint until the filter can remove the dead algae?

    Thanks for the interest, I will prevail!!

    Phil
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    When algae dies it often bleaches out to a milky white. But some algae retains some green when it dies.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    This is all very frustrating for me. I've had this pool for over 10 years, the last two years utilizing Baquacil. I never have had any issues with algae with either chlorine or baquacil.

    Currently holdng at 20 ppm, backwashed, brushed twice today as well as as clearing out the Walmart Clorox inventory. My only issue is I'm probably down to my last FAS/DPD test and will have to revert to test strips and dilution until the refills come in later in the week.
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Quote Originally Posted by phil280zxt

    The water never did leave the slightly green tint stage however...

    My current numbers are as follows (taken at 11:00 PM):

    FC 3.5 (was 6.0 24 hours ago)
    CC 0
    TC 3.5
    pH 7.5
    TA 110
    CH (not tested since this is a vinyl liner)
    CYA 30

    Any thoughts on how to get to the sparkling clear water everyone in the family is anxious to see??

    Thanks,
    Phil
    With a CYA of 30 your Shock level is 12ppm. You show 6 down to 3.5.

    I have some questions for you. When did you decide your conversion was complete? A Baq conversion is complete when

    your FC holds overnight
    Your CC is .5 or less
    Your water is sparkly clear

    You said above you never lost the greenish tint....so it wasn't exactly complete.....

    I am guessing here, and this is only a guess, that you weren't really done, may have changed the sand too soon?

    When you say "held these levels for a week" were these 'overnight chlorine readings' that held, with no overnight FC drop?

    Because it's possible, that you thought you were done and you really weren't, baq residue is trapped in the sand, and letting the FC drop to 6 and 3.5 the algae can take hold?

    I don't know I'm just reaching for ideas here on what could be causing this.

    Is it possible your liner has a greenish color base? Just asking....

    Gosh I'm stumped.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Poolmom, thanks for the suggestions. It seems so long ago that I underwent the Baquacil conversion that I can't remember how I determined I was done!! I know that I kept the chlorine at the conversion levels for quite a while before letting it drop, but I can't remember how the determination was made that it was over over then rules #1 and #2 were met. My comment is correct though, the water was never clear (#3) after the conversion and it may be that I changed the sand too early.

    I've dumped so much chlorine in during the past 7 weeks that I can't imagine there being any baq trace left, but it's worth a try I guess. I wish I had kept track of the 1.42 gallon bottles I've used.

    And by the way, no, my liner does not have a greenish tint, though I like your thinking LOL!!
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Murky green water is almost always algae, but there are other possibilities. Have you done an overnight FC loss test recently? Have you been backwashing/cleaning the filter regularly and does it seem to get dirty quickly or remain fairly clean?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Yes, I have done numerous overnight FC tests and the results are always the same, minimal drop in FC and 0 -.5 CC's. I have been backwashing as required, the water is initially dirty but cleans up within a couple of minutes.

    I have been keeping the FC at 20 ppm throughout the day today and will check again in the morning. I brushed a couple of times and had a couple of "batches" of kids in the pool over the course of the day. At least I don't have to explain to them or their parents why their eyes burn and are red after swimming in our pool which was the case when we were using Baquacil.....

    Along the lines of PoolMom's question regarding a possible green tinted liner LOL, I'm wondering if the color has been caused by all the chlorine I've added to the pool, it does have a chlorine type color to it LOL!!
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    If FC is holding overnight then it is probably a filter problem. You wouldn't happen to have one of those Intex filters? They are notorious for this kind of problem.

    There are many ways the filter could be not working. Have you been cleaning/backwashing it frequently? How does the filter pressure gauge read at various times? Cartridge and DE filters might have a torn panel. Sand filters can becomes channelized. The main valve (if any) might be letting water bypass the filter. And so on.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    Jason, thanks for the questions. I am using a hayward sand filter with sand replaced shortly after the Baquacil conversion. I backwash more frequently then needed, once a day until the water runs clear. The water is initially dirty for a few minutes. My pressure gauge does not read correctly and should be replaced.

    I am anxiously awaiting my TF-100 refill order so I can more closely monitor the chlorine level. I believe I am still at or around 20 ppm based on a diluted distilled water strip test
    24' by 52" Above Ground Pool
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Recent Baquacil to BBB Conversion

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    I have read on here that "dirty" sand filters better, possibly your backwashing "more frequently than needed" could be part of the issue....

    Guru's - should he try a little DE in the filter?

    See this sort of related thread, mentions DE in a sand filter to obtain better clarity...
    what-about-floc-t8378.html
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    If the filter water runs dirty for a "few minutes" every day then the filter is getting a substantial volume of stuff out of the water. Backwashing less often does allow the filter to catch smaller particles, and adding DE will also help catch smaller particles. But if the filter is already catching lots of stuff, neither of those will be useful right at the moment.

    It can take the filter up to a week to clear up the water after the algae is all dead. If the algae is all dead, you should see a visible improvement in the water each day. If there isn't a visible improvement from day to day then we are missing something. The FC level held overnight, so the algae should be dead, and the filter is getting dirty, so it is working. The water ought to be clearing up, perhaps slowly but still visibly improving.

    A floc treatment might be entertaining, but it shouldn't be required. It is a fair bit of work and you need to be able to vacuum to waste, which might mean disconnecting a hose if you don't have a multi-port valve. Still, if it works it can clean up the water in a day or two.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    I have to chime in here. We are having this exact experience right now. This also happened to us last year. You can see my post, including pictures, here:

    can-you-get-algae-if-fc-is-within-target-t2873.html

    We have a Sta-rite sand filter, Vinyl IG, 25K gallons, solar panels and solar blanket.

    Because we went through this last year, and used a TON of shock, without seeing a noticable clearing in the water, we have decided to handle it differently this year. Just like you, our CC's are zero. We haven't been losing FC overnight. We run our filter over 12 hours per day (and sometimes 24/7). We backwash every 2-3 days, depending on how our guage reads. Last year the theory was that we were seeing pollen in the water. However, we just couldn't get the water to clear. Jason & Duraleigh both were stumped, and we stopped posting on this site about the problem because we figured everyone thought we were either completely inept OR completely delusional! LOL We started to feel like idiots!

    This year everything was fine until about 4-5 days ago. Just like last year, we began to see a light green powdery silt on our steps. Each day it's gotten worse and today our water is pretty cloudy. We still are having a hard time believing that this is pollen because we have had our solar cover on for over a week....and there is a light dusting of the powdery stuff all over the bottom of the pool. We've been obsessed with watching the FC and CC each day, but all is normal.

    Anyway, as you can see from our 9/07 post, we used Phos-X last year to clear up the problem. Since shocking didn't help us last year, we're going to take a sample of water to the pool store to get it tested for phosphates again this year. If it's a high reading we'll try the Phos-X again. We'll let you know what happens.

    Todays Readings:

    FC: 5.5
    CC: 0
    CYA: 31
    PH: 7.6
    TA: 130 We know the TA is a bit high, but we've been using Tri-Chlor Tabs in the last 3 weeks...since our CYA is so low & they're so convenient. When we use tri-chlor we try to keep our TA between 100 and 120.
    22,000 Gallon, IG, Vinyl, Sta-Rite Sand Filter
    Milwaukee, WI area

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Frustrated and Needing Help (or maybe encouragement)

    It's me again...you all can pretty much ignore my previous post. We didn't get the Phos-X. By last night the water was green and the "silt" was climbing up the walls of the pool, especially in the shaded areas. So we're doing the shock routine. This is a different scenario than we had last year, there's no doubt that this IS algae. So, just pretend I never posted! LOL!
    22,000 Gallon, IG, Vinyl, Sta-Rite Sand Filter
    Milwaukee, WI area

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