Algae issues and chlorine problems

Nov 26, 2013
118
Elkridge, MD
It's the first time I've opened my pool and for the last 2 months I've been fighting problems with keeping my chlorine levels up which has allowed algae to grow. I'll give a rundown of events during that time, and have unfortunately spent too much money already. I also have been asking my friend who's owned a pool for 10 years now. Keep in mind, I have a SWG and cartridge filter (cartridges are old and gross, so I planned on replacing this year anyways. They should actually arrive today, so I can replace them at any point in time now).

Opened pool, put in the shock and salt needed to get values and pH corrected. It was 'too cold' to effectively use my SWG, so I was using chlorine tablets for the first few weeks.
Everything's crystal clear, looks good, turned SWG on, pool store tested water, said things looked good, nothing more to add (despite me double-checking, sort of bewildered that I'd need to add nothing more than the initial shock and my routine algaecide for maintenance).
A week later, pool turned cloudy. Found out that I should have added stabilizer (did i mention this is my first time opening the pool), so my chlorine levels went to 0 once it got sunny enough, allowing some algae to grow. Bought stabilizer and raised it where it needed to be. Also applied several pounds of shock, and added tablets, to clear things up.
A week later, pool is clear again, SWG seems to be doing its job, stabilizer seems to be keeping chlorine in. At this point in time, left the tablets in just in case.
4 days later, vacuumed the pool again, noticed debris flowing back in through the jets. Took apart the filter and cleaned the cartridges.
Had a party, things are good except noticed slimy algae on some of the walls and on parts of the ladder. The following day, added some shock and turned the SWG to "super chlorinate".
A few days later, green algae starts growing on the sides of the pool. Water gets cloudy. I take water sample to the store, they test and say there is no chlorine and no stabilizer (despite the 14 lbs I put in 2 weeks before). They sell me a algae destroyer shock to use, so I use that, I'm still using chlorine tablets, I still have my SWG to super chlorinate.
Green algae goes away, but water still cloudy. Go back a few days later, they say chlorine is still 0, stabilizer is like 20 ppm (I had added 2 lbs that I still had). Tell me to put in more tablets, use 6 lbs of shock to get levels up.
A few days later, still algae in the pool, still cloudy, still 'no chlorine' in the pool. They sell me a liquid algae destroyer and more shock. I go home, vacuum the pool, clean the cartridges again (noticeable dead algae on the filters), shock the pool, add the destroyer, add 4lbs stabilizer.
The next day, very noticeable dead algae on the top of the pool, so I skim it off. scrub the pool again (been doing this every day so far btw), test chlorine and still low, so add in another few pounds of shock, SWG still at super chlorinate.
It's now been 3 days, water was clear yesterday, but after brushing, it was cloudy again and could barely see the bottom of the deep end. Tested chlorine and level is still low. SWG still set at super chlorinate and chlorine tablets still in the skimmers.


So at this point, I had a few questions, and thoughts, and since the pool store doesn't seem to know much, other than how much their products cost, and the order of things to sell you to cost you the most $$, I figured I'd post on here.

1) as a salt water pool, I shouldn't have to rely on chlorine tablets. I don't know if I should ever have to add chlorine shock to the pool either (maybe after parties or after a heavy rain, but I thought that's what the "super chlorinate" feature was for). I tested the SWG sort of (turned skimmers off to avoid pulling the tablet chlorine, took sample from the jets, tested and it was off the charts), and it seemed to be generating chlorine, and the diagnostics all read good. Maybe I have to let my system run longer during the day since it can only generate while running? i was doing 8 hours originally, then turned it to 12 at the start. I've had it running 24 hours for the last 6 days.

2) stabilizer is supposed to keep the chlorine in the pool, but somehow my 14 lbs of stabilizer 'disappeared'. The store blamed the algae for it, so I've added 6 lbs since. If this is gone, I guess that'd be why my chlorine is going away again too?

3) algae seems to be mostly cleared up, but water still gets cloudy when I brush. Since my chlorine levels are still low, I can assume it can come right back. I figured I would switch out my cartridges tomorrow since my current ones are likely covered with dead algae again.

4) Lastly, any suggestions for how to fix my chlorine demands? I assume the algae was eating up the chlorine, but if it's dead, the chlorine should rise again and stay up. If it's not dead, then what else can I try to kill it? I've used my SWG and tablets to continuously add in chlorine to the water, algaecide to kill it, and lots of shock continuously to keep the levels high. I'm out of shock again (gone through ~20 lbs over the last 2 weeks) so if I need to buy more, I can do that, but wanted to run things by the forum first.

Obviously I'm frustrated, now I'm broke, but most of all I'm bewildered because if my equipment is working properly, then I don't know how I got algae to begin with, and since I've been treating it with shock and algaecide, why isn't it dead yet. And why does my chlorine level continue to read low.

I think I have my pool stats in my signature, and I can go get my water tested again today and get some numbers for you if there's anything in particular that would be useful to know.
 
Welcome to the forum! :wave:

I am going to give you a short answer. Although there is a lot of info here, if you have Algae it is simply a matter of not having enough FC high enough or long enough. This is also why the Algae returned. It really is that simple. To get it right, you need to SLAM the pool and then address and equipment issues with the SWG not making enough FC, if that's the case.

Please check out Pool School, first with the ABC's, then read further and understand the SLAM process and complete one. You must completely kill all the algae to move ahead.

Once you get clean and completely cleared up, you will not need Algaecide, and it's not something we suggest using. If you do not have an FAS DPD Chlorine kit, you need one to do the SLAM.
 
Welcome to TFP :wave:

We can help you. The first thing to do is order one of the recommended test kits. The best bang for the buck is the TF100. I suggest you order the XL option. And, get a speed stir to swirl the test for you! You will really love it especially for the CH tests. Link in my sig.

SWG's are used to 'maintain' FC levels in a pool that is balanced and it cannot add enough chlorine fast enough to SLAM a pool into submission and I think you understand that.

Once you complete the SLAM process, and go into maintenance mode, you should have smooth sailing from now on :smile:
 
Welcome!

I read your whole post thoroughly. You need one of the recommended test kits. I recommend the TF-100.
I suspect your CYA (Stabilizer) is much higher than you think. The TF-100 will let you get a real value for the SLAM.
Don't trust the pool store testing, it's pretty much worthless. The pool store wants to sell you chemicals. With a SWG, you should never need tablets or bag's of shock, both of which add stabilizer. You will liquid chlorine for your SLAM, you can use liquid from a pool store/home store or regular bleach from Walmart etc.

Please take the advice that everyone will give and order a test kit now. You can fix it with a recommended kit and everyone's help.
 
After posting, I was reading through some of the other forums (namely the SWG and algae forums). I also read the SLAM post and the ABCs. So I guess let me boil it down another way into a few questions that maybe are easier to answer.

1. (fast forward 2 weeks from now and things are cleared up) No algae in the pool, CYA and FC are at good levels. SWG is running and generating chlorine still. At this point, there should be no need for chlorine tablets, chlorine shock, etc, and the SWG should be able to maintain the levels of FC needed to keep the pool clean? If CYA drops, add more to make sure the chlorine stays in the pool, otherwise algae could begin to grow. Correct?

2. The school/SLAM recommends using liquid bleach to raise chlorine levels. Is there a reason to use that over the granular chlorine shock? I've been using several pounds of that every other day to keep the chlorine level high while the algae destroyer killed the algae. Is it just a difference in cost and how quickly it mixes in?

3. Since I've opened the pool this year, every time I brush it, it gets cloudy. At first, I thought this was just the chemicals I added (like salt), that had settled, and brushing them was allowing them to better circulate into the pool. Now I'm not sure if it's just sediment that's not being filtered out properly due to the older cartridges, or if it's algae that's getting kicked up (I wouldn't expect it to look like sediment clouds though), or possibly something else, like excess salt. Or is this just normal in plaster pools?

4. Is there a good way to test that the SWG is generating enough chlorine to keep up, once the algae is cleared up? All diagnostics indicate it's working properly, but I haven't tried taking it apart to inspect the cells (not sure how to do that on my model, and it doesn't have a window to allow you to see the cells). Is there somewhere on this forum that gives a tutorial/rundown on SWG, suggested %s to run it at and for how long each day, or anything like that?
 
Welcome! Answers below in red....

1. (fast forward 2 weeks from now and things are cleared up) No algae in the pool, CYA and FC are at good levels. SWG is running and generating chlorine still. At this point, there should be no need for chlorine tablets, chlorine shock, etc, and the SWG should be able to maintain the levels of FC needed to keep the pool clean? If CYA drops, add more to make sure the chlorine stays in the pool, otherwise algae could begin to grow. Correct? Yes. FC at the proper level, given your CYA level, will keep the pool clean. SWGs won't generate enough chlorine to eliminate algae if it's already there. If the pool is clean, SWGs will stay ahead of it.

2. The school/SLAM recommends using liquid bleach to raise chlorine levels. Is there a reason to use that over the granular chlorine shock? I've been using several pounds of that every other day to keep the chlorine level high while the algae destroyer killed the algae. Is it just a difference in cost and how quickly it mixes in? The primary reason is that when you add dry chlorine, you are adding something else to the pool as well, usually CYA, which you usually don't want more of.

3. Since I've opened the pool this year, every time I brush it, it gets cloudy. At first, I thought this was just the chemicals I added (like salt), that had settled, and brushing them was allowing them to better circulate into the pool. Now I'm not sure if it's just sediment that's not being filtered out properly due to the older cartridges, or if it's algae that's getting kicked up (I wouldn't expect it to look like sediment clouds though), or possibly something else, like excess salt. Or is this just normal in plaster pools? Might be plaster, but it's likely dead algae.

4. Is there a good way to test that the SWG is generating enough chlorine to keep up, once the algae is cleared up? Normal daily testing will show your trends. If your FC is holding constant, it's doing its job.

All diagnostics indicate it's working properly, but I haven't tried taking it apart to inspect the cells (not sure how to do that on my model, and it doesn't have a window to allow you to see the cells). Is there somewhere on this forum that gives a tutorial/rundown on SWG, suggested %s to run it at and for how long each day, or anything like that? Not really. Since every pool is different, you just have to tinker to find out what combination of pump run time and % setting works for you.
 
Okay, so considering I've already spent a few hundred dollars on the shocks/algaecides that we used to clear things up most of the way, any suggestions on what to try for the next few days until my test kit gets in to see if I need to further SLAM the pool? I've been using the granular shock, but I'm out of that. I can go buy the liquid bleach instead and use it, but without the kit, I don't know how much I'll need. I'm also going to switch out the cartridges hopefully tomorrow, so that should help get things cleared up in the pool.

Second related question, about how much bleach are we talking about using for a typical SLAM? I know it will vary based on pool size, how bad the problem is, etc, but would it be like 10 gallons, or like 40 gallons? I seem to be missing a post that indicates how much I should be adding for the problem. I assume it may be the chlorine/CYA chart, but not entirely sure what I'll be aiming for. If it helps, the algae I had seemed to be mustard algae. It also never got 'out of control', meaning there were a few small patches growing in corners of the pool that didn't get much sun, but never enough to discolor the pool or become rampant. When adding the algae killer chemical, I got a lot of yellowish 'scum', resembling pollen, on the top of the pool/spa that i skimmed off.

So my thought was to add bleach for the next few days, not enough to SLAM it, but enough to 'maintain' the chlorine level until I get my test kit and can thoroughly test/SLAM if needed. As the algae doesn't seem to be growing right now, I'd rather keep the problem minimal rather than ignore it for a few days while I wait. Thoughts on how much bleach I should buy for now?
 
Well, you may need to do the drain/refill dance when you report your test results, so we hesitate to comment here about adding chorine, but:

One gallon of 8.5% plain bleach will raise the FC by 3.5 ppm. You could add one each evening, after the sun is off the pool. And, keep the SWG running.

You might find liquid chlorine, higher %, at a better price. Shop around.

I suggest you get at least 20 gallons for starters. Be ready to hit the ground running when the TF100 gets there.
 
Just to be sure, when we talk about liquid chlorine, we're talking about anything with Sodium Hydrochlorite, right? The granular shock is calcium hydrochlorite and has things that will affect the CYA levels. I want to be sure as I shop around that I can get anything with the active ingredient as Sodium hydrochlorite. I found clorox (8.5%) for $3+ a bottle, and another 'shock' that was 12.5% for $2.50, I wanted to make sure they were pretty much the same thing. What is confusing is the "other ingredients" part, so I wanted to make sure that the difference between the solid and liquid chlorines is simply what's left behind (sodium or calcium) after it's used.

I would be okay using the liquid chlorine shock that's 12.5% concentrate right?
 

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Okay so I put in my new filter cartridges last Sunday afternoon. I also purchased liquid chlorine. I've had my system running 24/7 for the last 3 days and my SWG is set to 95% right now. Every other day I've been testing the chlorine and it's been reading low, so while waiting on my test kit I've been putting in about 2/3 a bottle a day (3 times now). I just got my test kit in this evening so I ran the tests. I haven't added any of the chlorine shock to the pool today, but again the system has been running and the SWG is pumping in chlorine. Also just to note, my pool water is clear, looks nice and blue, and makes me want to jump in because it's so freaking hot outside right now. However since the chlorine levels are reading low I assume there is still something going on.

I've also noticed that since I've opened the pool this year, I get small piles of black residue that clump up in the deep end (looks like dirt). I've vacuumed it up (though not with my new cartridges yet), and it shows back up a couple days later. I've also noticed that while there is no more slimy-ness to the sides of the pool or visible algae (especially in the skimmers where it was really noticeable), when I brush the bottom of the pool, it gets cloudy (again, could just be dirt again, or possibly the plaster is breaking up and i'm brushing residue around?).

Here are my numbers. I figured I would start to SLAM the pool if needed, but I figured I'd run things by here first and determine what to start with.

FC - 1ppm
CC - 1ppm
pH - 7.2
TA - 150
CH - 500 ppm
CYA - 20
Salt - ~2750 (though my SWG reads 3100...never used the strips before so I could have not waited long enough)

The kit says TA for SW pools should be between 60-90, so mine is obviously high (during this process, I added baking soda because this was supposedly low). Also, my CYA should be between 70-80 for SWG right? But it was thought due to all of the granular shock I was using that this would be much higher, and considering that a month ago I put in 16lbs of stabilizer, I assumed it would be higher as well.
 
You don't want the CYA to be much higher than 30 while you perform the Shock Level And Maintain Process. After you pass all three tests, then you can elevate it.

That brown stuff that collects is probably dead algae - looks like dust bunnies, right?

Scrub everything, including behind the light. It should just unscrew, tip up, and lift out with enough cord to let it rest on the deck while you attack the niche.

But get FC up to 10 tonight, and if possible, do it again before work in the morning. As often as you can. If the water is already clear, you could be through before the weekend. :splash:
 
So the SLAM process (as a process) makes sense, but the math behind it does not. I'm not sure what/where to go to determine what would be required to raise it to the recommended levels. According to the pool calculator, I would only need 1 1/2 gallons of shock to raise the FC to 10. But I'm also not sure why you recommend an FC of 10. The chlorine/CYA chart speaks about SWG pools, but only lists values of FC needed if my stabilizer is in range.

So am I using the non-SWG chart for now since my stabilizer is down? Or am I misreading the chart?

So again, it makes sense, but deciding how much to add and where I should get getting it is the problem. If you could lead this horse to water and indicate what I should be following to get my FC up to 10 (and explain why I'm getting it to 10 and not something else, I'd appreciate it). It's storming here tonight, so I can't do much with it today. I planned on starting tomorrow since the rain water will be added to the pool then anyways.
 
Easy. Poolmath has all the answers. For zero CYA - actually, anything up to 20 -shock level is 10. Here's how to use it.

In brief, input pool size, then scroll way down and select the surface, SWG, and TFP in Suggested Goal Levels. After you input your numbers, the second-to-last box will show you that shock level is 10 FC for 20 CYA. Plug that as your target and enter your current FC and select the strength bleach and boom - you have the first dose. It's probably too late to get a second one in tonight, but do the same thing in the morning. input test results, target is 10, add it. Keep it up there around 10 as consistently as possible around the constraints of work and don't neglect the brushing. It'll clear up fast. You're not starting from green and chunky.
 
10 ppm is selected as a suggested value that has been found to be effective and yet safe. Much as in selecting a suggested level of aspirin to take. Too little and you don't get the affect you need. Too much and you risk damage to the equipment. Please use the non-swg chart as the suggested dosage.
 
Thanks for the help getting me going. I'm sure I'll figure things out the more I do things. I was fooling around with the PoolMath before, but I didn't see the goal options at the bottom. Your link to how to use the PoolMath definitely helps.

One more question...during this process, what are thoughts on running the filter system? I assume 24/7 is preferred until I do the OCLT test? Or is normal runtime okay?
 
Thanks for the help getting me going. I'm sure I'll figure things out the more I do things. I was fooling around with the PoolMath before, but I didn't see the goal options at the bottom. Your link to how to use the PoolMath definitely helps.

One more question...during this process, what are thoughts on running the filter system? I assume 24/7 is preferred until I do the OCLT test? Or is normal runtime okay?
24/7 during the SLAM, just like it says under prerequisites. The only exception would be a real sludge pond that would completely clog the filter if left unattended while you were asleep or at work.
 
So while I'm SLAMing the pool, let me ask another couple questions.

The simple chlorine test kit (packaged with the pH test kit) tests FC ppm, right? We use the more thorough test for levels above 5 ppm or to test the cc. But after I complete the SLAM and things return to normal, it says recommended FC levels (assuming my cc will equal 0, and depending on my CYA levels) for SWG pool is 3-5. So when I use that chlorine test kit, I'd essentially want to see it hit the brightest yellow? If that's the case, do I have to do the full chlorine test in case it's over 5 to make sure it's not 6+?. I only ask this because the previous kit I had says "ideal range" on the middle ranges, like 1.5-2.5, not on 3-5 range. So as I settle things out and get my SWG timer set up, I want to make sure I stay at the right FC and read the test right each day so I don't get problems again.

Second question, according to my test numbers, my CH is way high (500 instead of 300) and my TA is way high (150 instead of 80). My CYA is also low (20 instead of 70). So the question is, what order should I go about correcting first? The only way to lower CH is to remove the water (apparently 40% of my water), so am I replacing the majority of my water first, or is CH not that important as long as I keep my pH in check? Or should I get my CYA up to 70 first to keep my FC in range, then handle lowering the TA and ignore the CH?

I obviously don't want to put in a bunch of chemicals to get my CYA/TA in range, only to replace the water to lower my CH and have to do it all over again.
 
500 CH is manageable. If water is cheap and available (It's not in CA this year) and you intend to lower CH, do it now, before you spend a fortune treating the water for algae.

CYA takes a few days to dissolve. You just fill the sock and set it in there and wait. Everything else goes on around it.

TA will come down on its own as you keep pH in check. If you don't drain to lower CH, then you need to get aggressive with that.

Using that colormatch tester is just as you surmised. You check yourself a couple times a week with the FAS-DPD tester.
 
Okay, so I've been SLAMing the pool for 2 days now, keeping the FC at 10, checking ever 2-3 hours and bringing it back up as needed. Thursday night my FC went from 10-6ppm, but my CC is at .5ppm now. It continued to go down yesterday (very sunny day) and I continued to put in chlorine. Yesterday I noticed some dead algae in spots I had missed brushing before (certain spots on the ladder had the white slime-like algae on them) so I cleaned things up again very good. Last night I tested it before I went to bed, topped it back up to 10 FC, CC still at .5ppm, and went to bed.

This morning I tested it and my FC was back down to 6.5 FC, CC still at .5ppm. I've had my filter/SWG (at 100%) running 24/7 for the last 7 days or so. So the question is, when will I know when I'm ready for the OCLT? If my SWG is pumping in chlorine and I'm still losing 3-4 ppm each night, if I shut it off, seems like it'd go down even more. The test says it can only go down 1ppm. Is there any point in time when I should test that, or will it be okay to shut off the SWG at night each night and test it until it passes?

I'd like to reiterate that the pool looks really clear and inviting. Before I even got the test kit in to start the SLAM process, my roommates were telling me I had done a good job clearing it up. I had to inform them "thanks, but I haven't actually started doing anything yet". I'm thinking it should be done by tonight or tomorrow night at the latest, but I obviously want to make sure of it so it doesn't come back. If I continue to lose 3-4 ppm each night, could it be that I have mustard algae or something that requires a higher FC to kill off? Should I try SLAMing it with a higher concentration to make sure it's cleared up?
 

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