Help me redesign my equipment pad

[EvilTwin]

Well, in the short time I have been hanging out on this forum I see there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here. Since I haven't been around pools too long, I don't really know much about how an equipment pad should be set up. I am throwing this out there to those that have experience, in the hopes that I can get some suggestions on upgrading/replacing the equipment and plumbing on my pad. Here is what it presently looks like:

What I do know about what is here:

The heater on the right is a 350,000 BTU Teledyne Llars Oil-fired furnace heater. That's right, home heating oil. This is going to be replaced by a 300,000 BTU Propane unit in the near future. I'm just burning up the oil I have left.
The Filter is a Nautilis FNS-48. It is old but seems to be solid. The screens and manifold are fine. The backwash valve needs replacing.
There is a Pac-Fab Stainless separation tank to the right of the filter. It has been hacksawed out of the equation. Not dure whats wrong with it. Haven't messed with it.
Dual single speed pumps. One for filter, other for cleaner (Polaris 3900)
Valves and plumbing seem ok, though the hottub will drain to pool level sometimes overnight.
Box on the wall has 100 Amp service from the main in the house. Two wheel timers for filter and cleaner.

What I would like to have in the end is an automated and energy efficient system. New pumps, valves, etc. I like what I have seen from Pentair with Easy-Touch and Intellitouch. Ultimately I would like the wireless remote, computer monitoring, remote control valves, etc. My kitchen window looks out over the pool and spa. I want to control everything from inside. I also think I want to convert to a SWG to handle the sanitation duties.

So there you go. Have at it. I am pretty handy with pvc plumbing so I am not afraid to do the work myself. I just want to start working up a plan and a budget so I can prepare to do this all probably at the beginning of next season.

A number of the things with my plumbing seem different from what I have seen. For example, the valves on the left that are on the pipes coming from the drains and skimmers, these are smaller versions of the other larger diverter valves. Are those really necessary there? I'd rather have normal ball valves with unions. Oh yeah, I like union connections where appropriate. I don't like hacksawing to remove components. I know unions are more expensive and are more prone to leak but that's ok. That's why they have o-rings, right?

 

[jblizzle]

All those valves are the better pool valves at like $40 each, I would not replace any those with cheap ball valves. The suction side looks fine to me. The return looks a little jumbled and hard to see.

All you need to do is replace the pump and put a SWG after the heater as far I can tell. A then put actuators on your existing valves.

 

[EvilTwin]

The return side, left to right, is like this:

Pool return - Valve - Spa Return Flush Drain

The two ball valves leading to the heater are locked in place and won't move. The flush drain pipe is just a stub that is capped at this point. There looks to be maybe a check valve in the spa return line, at the top of that loop between the valve and ground.

It sounds like you are saying, generally, the layout is good. If I were to install an Intellitouch system, would that main unit replace the entire timer/breaker box on the wall?

 

[danpik]

Just wondering why you want to switch from Fuel oil to Propane. I did not run any numbers but, I don't think propane will cost any less

 

[EvilTwin]

Just wondering why you want to switch from Fuel oil to Propane. I did not run any numbers but, I don't think propane will cost any less

Cost. The fuel oil heater that is there now was installed with the pool, back in 1994. While going through the paperwork from the pool's original costs and design (the original owner left all of this) I saw notes that referred to the cost of oil at the time, .89/gal, vs propane at $1.29/gal. Because the house already had oil furnaces and tanks, the guy bought this oil heater and tied into the same oil tanks that heat the house.

Fast forward to today, oil is $3.60+ per gallon. Propane is much cheaper. Also, we are in the process of replacing the house heating and air conditioning with a complete geothermal system. That will be completed this summer. So the oil tanks will be going away. Also, the oil-based pool heater is 20 years old. It has issues and has already been "totalled" by the home warranty company. We received funds to replace it with a comparable propane unit.

Ideally, I had looked for either a way to tie the pool heater into the geothermal system or to just use a heat pump. The general consensus from anyone I have asked is that because we have a spa in addition to the pool, it makes a heat pump unpractical. The thinking is that we are going to want to be able to heat the hot tub in a hurry so we can use it without waiting around an hour or more for it to heat up. Everyone says that a heat pump just won't do that. I wish someone would prove that theory wrong. I'd rather be able to tie into the geothermal or get a high efficiency heat pump.

 

[bhargraves]

Are you having any issues with your current plumbing (other than some valves being stuck)?

If you replace / add valves, go with Jandy NeverLube. For check valves, go for the Jandy clear ones. These are repairable and won't kill flow.

 

[EvilTwin]

Are you having any issues with your current plumbing (other than some valves being stuck)? .

It's not really a matter of things not working, except maybe the check valve for the spa. It is more from a desire to replace old equipment with newer, energy efficient pumps, new heater, maybe an SWG and various automation components. If I do all of that, I am going to need to replumb stuff. I'm just trying to get some ideas.

 

[jblizzle]

Looks like a union in front of the pump right? That should allow you to install a new pump without changing any of the suction plumbing/valves. You will have to change the pipe from the pump to the filter. Only other issue I see is not a lot of room after the heater to plumb in a SWG ... although if you put a new heater in (with better isolation valves that do not stiffen up), you may be able to leave more room.

 

[EvilTwin]

Looks like a union in front of the pump right? That should allow you to install a new pump without changing any of the suction plumbing/valves. You will have to change the pipe from the pump to the filter. Only other issue I see is not a lot of room after the heater to plumb in a SWG ... although if you put a new heater in (with better isolation valves that do not stiffen up), you may be able to leave more room.

Just following up here. Thanks for the reply. If the suction side looks good, then perhaps I will leave that alone. So, some questions:

1. The spa tends to drain down to the same level of the pool overnight when the pumps are off. I assume bad check-valve? It looks like this is on the pressure side in the pipe leading to the spa?

2. If I want to go with a variable speed main pump with it's own timing, etc. what do I do about the intermatic timers? Should I hold off on replacing the pump until I do the automation part as well?

3. I have a Polaris 3900 pressure-side cleaner on it's own, smaller pump. Plumbing for that looks to be 1 1/2 inch PVC. Is there a recommended pump size for this? Single speed? Dual? Variable?

4. There is a separation tanks to go with the DE filter. The tank is disconnected from the whole system. I opened it up this weekend and the filter basket is missing. They are pricey to replace. How important is this tank? Is it worth it to get it re-plumbed into the system when they install the new heater?

 

[jblizzle]

1. Usually a leaking check valve or could be one of the 3-ways
2. If the pump has a timer, then you will not need the Intermatic timers, although I am not sure how you wire in the booster pump.
3. I don't think there are VS/2-speed booster pumps. They are only on when the cleaner is running and they have to be a full speed. These are the least efficient types of cleaners because you have to run 2 pumps for them to work.
4. Some places require the use to separation tanks because you are not allow the backwash the DE into the environment or sewers. Check your local codes. Although you could switch to fiber instead of DE and not have the environmental concerns.