new to the forum, checking in with a few questions

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J

jinx

0
Jul 14, 2008
7
baltimore, hun.
Ok, lots to say here, here's some info-

Location - baltimore
pool stats-
30,000 gallon, 20'x40' rect, 36 sq ft DE filter, heat pump on it but not used, one skimmer at mid depth, floor drain was cemented over.

Built in 1985, this vinyl liner pool went until this year (08), that's 23 years, before I replaced it due to leaking. It was a baquacil pool for all of those years with lots of trouble-free use. My family is new to the home as of nov of 07, so I tried for the first season to open it up with baq, no luck, it remained pond green. I drained it and had the replacement liner in place within a week, filled with resevior/drinking water for $1k (60 degrees too). The installers threw in 3 gallons of baquacil sanitizer before I could stop them, that was on July 2. I had not added anything until last night. My plan is to convert to chlorine, so I had the water tested on july 10, it showed 12ppm of baq present. The pool store manager sold me three 32 oz. bottles of a chemical whose label states that it is used in converting to chlorine by eliminating the baq from the water without sludge, slime nor clumping. So, I diluted that and put it in last night, no change to the water btw. The instructions are to wait 24 hours, then shock, then wait 12 hours plus and begin to add chlorine to raise that and cya levels. I have a good kit, I'll be testing and submitting water samples for the pool store to test.
My plan is to get this pool clean and clear again within 6 days. There is a little bit of algae starting to set in due to nothing being in it. We enjoyed its chem free-ness for all we could, waiting to convert on a sunday night. I will be pouring in bleach in the future, once the cya level is up and the FC is manageable. Comments so far on that?

As a payment for advice and answers in the future, I offer up a nice tip that I invented this weekend. I bought a hose driven circular vaccume with a bag on top, they are fairly common. I replaced the bag with a pair of pantyhose that my wife had snagged and was about to toss out. I used a rubber band from the kid's punching balloon to secure it around the lip of the vac. I then put a tennis ball into each leg to keep the bag up and inflated underwater. Man, it worked great on the small grit, leaf dust, worms and other small particles that would have passed right through the stock bag. I plan on switching to leg tights, as my wife explains that the mesh is even closer in tolerance. Without a floor drain, my deep end gets crusted with stuff. When I was done, I cut out the balls and tossed the hose into the garbage. Give this is whirl, its easy.

Questions-
I can't seem to find 12.5% liquid bleach. Not that I have been looking for it all my life, but I have a sam's and a super walmart and I plan on looking there before paying for shipping via a web purchase.

DE - I found that Ace Hardware can special order a 50lb bag for me at about $20 a bag. Does that sound about right?

I got the usual policy at the pool store about bleach, also about the benefits of Baq, and they sell DE for $25 for a 12lb box. What a rip off!

One last question I can't seem to solve-
I have to purge off the air (45 seconds worth of hissing) in my filter tank every so often. I also notice that it pushes bubbles through the return jet and into the pool. Somewhere, there is an air leak. Its not the skimmer, could be the basket at the pump, but wanted to know of other places to check. I have no water loss, so does that mean this leak is between the skimmer and the filter?

many thanks-
jinx

ps - I know that I will miss the swimming in the drinking water, do any of you know how nice that is? Hopefully, the pool will be swim-able by this weekend - 5 days?
 
Welcome to TFP!!

jinx said:
Ok, lots to say here, here's some info-

Location - baltimore
pool stats-
30,000 gallon, 20'x40' rect, 36 sq ft DE filter, heat pump on it but not used, one skimmer at mid depth, floor drain was cemented over.

Thanks for the info on the pool - any chance of making it a permanent part of your sig so that you don't have to keep retyping it for every post? You can find a lot of useful info at POOL SCHOOL including how to set up a sig and check for air leaks http://www.troublefreepool.com/category/pool-school/leak_detection and converting from Baquacil http://www.troublefreepool.com/category/pool-school/baqua_chlorine_conversion

Built in 1985, this vinyl liner pool went until this year (08), that's 23 years, before I replaced it due to leaking. It was a baquacil pool for all of those years with lots of trouble-free use. My family is new to the home as of nov of 07, so I tried for the first season to open it up with baq, no luck, it remained pond green. I drained it and had the replacement liner in place within a week, filled with resevior/drinking water for $1k (60 degrees too). The installers threw in 3 gallons of baquacil sanitizer before I could stop them, that was on July 2. I had not added anything until last night. My plan is to convert to chlorine, so I had the water tested on july 10, it showed 12ppm of baq present. The pool store manager sold me three 32 oz. bottles of a chemical whose label states that it is used in converting to chlorine by eliminating the baq from the water without sludge, slime nor clumping. So, I diluted that and put it in last night, no change to the water btw. The instructions are to wait 24 hours, then shock, then wait 12 hours plus and begin to add chlorine to raise that and cya levels. I have a good kit, I'll be testing and submitting water samples for the pool store to test.
My plan is to get this pool clean and clear again within 6 days. There is a little bit of algae starting to set in due to nothing being in it. We enjoyed its chem free-ness for all we could, waiting to convert on a sunday night. I will be pouring in bleach in the future, once the cya level is up and the FC is manageable. Comments so far on that?

I wouldn't recommend swimming in a pool with NO sanitizer in it, it's just asking for trouble :( !! I'm not a Baq conversion expert, so can't offer any more than the link I gave you to the Pool School article on it.

As a payment for advice and answers in the future, I offer up a nice tip that I invented this weekend. I bought a hose driven circular vaccume with a bag on top, they are fairly common. I replaced the bag with a pair of pantyhose that my wife had snagged and was about to toss out. I used a rubber band from the kid's punching balloon to secure it around the lip of the vac. I then put a tennis ball into each leg to keep the bag up and inflated underwater. Man, it worked great on the small grit, leaf dust, worms and other small particles that would have passed right through the stock bag. I plan on switching to leg tights, as my wife explains that the mesh is even closer in tolerance. Without a floor drain, my deep end gets crusted with stuff. When I was done, I cut out the balls and tossed the hose into the garbage. Give this is whirl, its easy.

Good tip :goodjob: - I'm a big fan of using nylons to aid in filtration or to hold cya when you are adding it.

Questions-
I can't seem to fine 12.5% liquid bleach. Not that I have been looking for it all my life, but I have a sam's and a super walmart and I plan on looking there before paying for shipping via a web purchase.

DE - I found that Ace Hardware can special order a 50lb bag for me at about $20 a bag. Does that sound about right?

I don't think it's legal to ship liquid chlorine, so I doubt you'll find a source on the web (but I could be wrong :shock: ) You should look for liquid shock at either of those places, but if Ace has the discount DE, they probably have the high % bleach -- that is a very! good price for the DE -- even if you can't find the high % stuff, you can just use ~ 2X as much of the 6% unscented bleach from wally world or the grocery store. Using the pool calculator, found in Pool School :wink: here will tell you how much of whatever % bleach you have to make the change you want

I got the usual policy at the pool store about bleach, also about the benefits of Baq, and they sell DE for $25 for a 12lb box. What a rip off!

One last question I can't seem to solve-
I have to purge off the air (45 seconds worth of hissing) in my filter tank every so often. I also notice that it pushes bubbles through the return jet and into the pool. Somewhere, there is an air leak. Its not the skimmer, could be the basket at the pump, but wanted to know of other places to check. I have no water loss, so does that mean this leak is between the skimmer and the filter?

many thanks-
jinx

ps - I know that I will miss the swimming in the drinking water, do any of you know how nice that is? Hopefully, the pool will be swim-able by this weekend - 5 days?
Click to expand...

Again, welcome here! If it wasn't fairly obvious from my replies above - READ POOL SCHOOL!! :hammer: Once you've done that you'll be able to ask more specific and meaningful questions about what's going on in your pool :-D
 
Thanks for the info, Waste, I have read all you linked.

As for the green colored type, the pink is better, but your second reply is again, green and faint.
If you could change your normal settings from the green to something readable, that would be nice.

thanks
 
Here's an update with more questions.

So if sunday was the day that i dumped in the conversion chemical for swapping from baq to chlorine, then monday night I began with the one pound bags of Cal Hypo at 47% to get it to shock levels. I was instructed to put in all 12 pounds which sounded like too much after some reading on the bags themselves, so I hedged and put in 8, thinking that I could always add the rest later. I brushed some algae off the sides of the pool and went to bed.
Tuesday evening I ran a chlorine test with my new taylor kit. No chlorine showed at all, zippo.
I put in the other 4 bags of cal hypo, brushed like the night before and awoke to a much more sparkling pool, so I tested the chlorine again, this is wednesday am, this time it showed a deeper red than the range available, so it was above 5ppm. I took a bottle to the pool store to be tested to be sure. They reported the following-
FC - 1.5
TC - 1.5
PH - 7.7
TA - 95
CYA - 0
Tot Hardness - 175

I knew I was at zero cya, I had just filled my pool, and low on chlorine overall, and I wasn't concerned about the PH yet, as I was going to balance that once the swap was complete. I asked if it was safe to swim in, I got a thumbs up.
They told me to do 2 things.
Add 6lbs of CYA, or what they call stabilizer. I did buy that.
They also said I needed to raise my TA level. My thinking on this is that, for right now, my PH is ok but not perfect. I'll be getting some baking soda in the near future and using the pool calc to see how much to put in. From what I have read, its alot of powder.

I also picked up two other supplies at ace hardware-
a 50lb bag of DE was less than $25, so go and special order it from them, cuz that is cheap.
I got a gallon of Muriatic Acid for less than $6, to help my PH stay low.

When I got home tonight, I added the cya, brushed it around and wished it dissolved faster. Next time its in a sock.
I tested my chlorine, no color showed up, so I grabbed my huge bottle of bleach, did a quick calculation and added about 96 ounces, bucket diluted, to the deep end.
I again brushed some debris off the bottom.
I waited 2 hours and tested, filter is on 24/7 for now. Results - zero chlorine.

I still have 2 lbs of non chlorine that the store gave to me-
It is - Potassium Peroxymonopersulfate - 42.8% in one pound bags.
I was told to add this in each day after the shock, but it seems as though I don't need it.

Questions-
How is it that the store read 1.5ppm of chlorine and my pool reading 8 hours later had none? Is this the rate at which chlorine vaporizes without cya on a sunny day? And adding 96 ounces of liquid, 6% bleach should add something to the test readings, right? Is it too soon for that to be read?

I am going to test again in the morning, hopefully, the chlorine holds with the help of the cya.

thanks
jinx
 
Yes, you will lose easily that much chlorine on a sunny day. Without CYA in your pool, the sun will consume virtually any and all chlorine. Now that you have added CYA you should see your FC stabilize. See the CYA chlorine chart for your "target and Minimum" FC levels, don't go below the minimum. I wouldn't use the Cal-Hypo anymore, your TH/CH is 175 which is more than fine for a vinyl liner... just use 6% bleach or the stronger 10 or 12.5% if you can find it. Also don't bother with the PPmps shock, you don't need it.

After sunset, test your FC and add bleach to reach your target level. After 30 minutes test the FC again to ensure you reached it, adding more if necessary. Converting from BaQ takes ALOT OF chlorine. Jugs and jugs of it. When you think your done, your not!...LOL. In the morning before the pool is exposed to sun, test the FC again. If it holds or you lose less than 1ppm, you are good!

Your PH is fine at 7.7, it's at the high end. Muratic Acid will lower it, and Baking Soda will raise it, so be careful about adding Baking Soda....
 
Also, if you haven't swapped out the DE you'll have to do that to complete your conversion. Since you just added the CYA you should probably wait a few days for it to fully dissolve, some may be trapped in your filter. Not sure if it works that way with DE filters or not.

Good luck, and BTW, welcome! :wave:
 
I tested this am (thursday), no chlorine.

I also swapped out the DE in the filter just after the shock, but before the CYA, so I am good there.
I will add some bleach this am, and buy more.

I bought the acid, knowing that I wanted to add baking soda, but that would raise my ph, So, I am going to add both in tonight.

many thanks, I guess I am on the right track.
jinx
 

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jinx said:
I tested this am (thursday), no chlorine.

I also swapped out the DE in the filter just after the shock, but before the CYA, so I am good there.
I will add some bleach this am, and buy more.

I bought the acid, knowing that I wanted to add baking soda, but that would raise my ph, So, I am going to add both in tonight.

many thanks, I guess I am on the right track.
jinx
Click to expand...

Yeah, stock up on some bleach. You need to get your chlorine up and do the "overnight" test to ensure that you have a FC residual holding in the darkness.

Sounds like you are on the right track, but why add the baking soda? Your TA is fine, your PH is at the high end. There really isn't any reason at this time for you to add any baking soda. Keep an eye on your PH and if it goes to 7.8 I would lower it with the Muratic Acid to 7.4-7.6 I would not add any baking soda at all, IMHO.
 
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