A slight "shock"

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Get a meter that can test frequency to see what that shows.

Also, get a little lightbulb that will work on the measured voltage and see if the voltage will support a load by putting the bulb in series and watching to see if it lights up. Measure voltage at the same time to see if it stays steady or drops out.
 
I skimmed thru this and did not see the question asked, maybe it was and I missed it....

Is there reinforcing wire in the concrete? This can be either the 6x6 mesh or re-bar. If so, was it connected to the bonding grid? If there is none, was there a perimeter wire ran?



Dan
 
danpik said:
I skimmed thru this and did not see the question asked, maybe it was and I missed it....

Is there reinforcing wire in the concrete? This can be either the 6x6 mesh or re-bar. If so, was it connected to the bonding grid? If there is none, was there a perimeter wire ran?



Dan
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I know a wire was ran from the pool walls, diving board feet, and ladder cups because I helped with the dirt work and kept tripping over it. I wasn't there when the concrete was poured so I can't say 100% if there was a mesh. But, this concrete company does all the work for the pool company, so I would like to assume that this was done. I can call the concrete guys and ask if they remember, but I'm sure they will tell me yes..
 
I would get this fixed sooner than later.

What if by chance someone (maybe the utility co) discovers the work involved to fix the issue is digging up on your property?

I know I would want that done off season.
 
Your electricians could not have truly "tested" your bonding system, by just sniffing around.. Yes power companies have created issues like yours, but with a corrupt bonding system. Find a qualified electrician (I don't mean simply licensed, but whose purview includes pools spas & decorative water features. Conditions like yours only get worse..

Some easy reading for you.. Testing a Swimming Pool Bonding Grid by Paolo Benedetti, <span class="swdhighlight">SWD</span> 3-6-2014


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PoolguyinCT said:
Your electricians could not have truly "tested" your bonding system, by just sniffing around.. Yes power companies have created issues like yours, but with a corrupt bonding system. Find a qualified electrician (I don't mean simply licensed, but whose purview includes pools spas & decorative water features. Conditions like yours only get worse..

Some easy reading for you.. Testing a Swimming Pool Bonding Grid by Paolo Benedetti, <span class="swdhighlight">SWD</span> 3-6-2014


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Click to expand...

They did use a meter and some bare copper wire when testing. I just want to make clear that they weren't just looking around and then telling me that it was okay.


Find a qualified electrician (I don't mean simply licensed, but whose purview includes pools spas & decorative water features.
Click to expand...
This is the main issue. Finding a "qualified" electrician.

I will try to run this test this weekend
 
So I can't find anyone that really knows anything other than to tell me that there is nothing to worry about, etc.... I am going to try and test the bonding grid myself. I wanted to run this by you guys to see if this is correct....it may even be somewhere in this thread somewhere. I am going to get enough copper wire to go completely around my pool. I am going to tie that in to the pump ground and bond it to the ladder cups. If I am understanding it correctly, shouldn't this stop the shock that I am feeling? And if so, I would just need to use a concrete saw to bury this wire into the concrete and tie everything in?

The only thing that has not been checked is the pool light, but the pool is closed now with the safety cover on. With that being said, we still felt the shock with the pool light breaker turned off.
 
I called the last pool install business locally to ask about their electrician. I was told their electrician would not even come look at it because it's a liability issue. Par for the course.

I called the business that I got the pool from and was told the electrician that installed it is no longer around here. I said, "well, who do you use now?" And I was told that he is not going to be able to figure it out because he's not good enough....I was thinking, "Really?" You use an electrician that is not good enough..

I then proceeded to ask him if he bonded the pool and he said yes (which I knew he had ran the wire attached to the walls, diving board, ladder, etc...). I then asked if he knew if the concrete guys added the wire mesh for the bonding grid in the concrete and he said no, not unless I asked for it...which I didn't. He said they don't normally do that.

So, I believe I have found the issue. It sounds like the concrete is not bonded. Now, how can I fix this without tearing up all of the concrete? Can I use a concrete saw to cut trenches, lay the wire in the trench, connect to the ladder, diving board, and then back to the bond wire that goes to the pump?
 
TN94z said:
So, I believe I have found the issue. It sounds like the concrete is not bonded. Now, how can I fix this without tearing up all of the concrete? Can I use a concrete saw to cut trenches, lay the wire in the trench, connect to the ladder, diving board, and then back to the bond wire that goes to the pump?
Click to expand...

Doing something like that can only make it better, though I don't know if it will do enough, and I know it won't be as good as a real bonding system in the concrete. The big question is how closely do you need to space the wires?
 

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If you google for NEC 680 equipotential bond, you should find a link to a PDF of 2014 NEC requirements. Page 19 describes an alternative using a single wire 18 to 24 inches from the inside of the pool wall.
In any case the document give a good overview of what is required.

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So in most states a grid is not required, only a single wire 18 to 24 inches from the pool wall. But current doesn't always obey the NEC so we have bonding problems.

I'm with John on this anything you can do will help the situation. Two wires around the pool is better than one. Make sure you have a water bond and the pool structure is connected also. The more conductive elements you can connect the better.
 
gwegan said:
So in most states a grid is not required, only a single wire 18 to 24 inches from the pool wall. But current doesn't always obey the NEC so we have bonding problems.

I'm with John on this anything you can do will help the situation. Two wires around the pool is better than one. Make sure you have a water bond and the pool structure is connected also. The more conductive elements you can connect the better.
Click to expand...

I do know the pool structure (walls, diving board legs, and ladder feet) are connected. I remember that wire being installed. What I may do if my single wire test is successful is move a little further away from the first wire and lay a 2nd wire as well. It really depends on how much space I have because one run of concrete is not all that wide. I will buy the attachment to bond the water as well.

One question I do have is...what about all of the metal connectors that are in the concrete for my safety cover? Would the concrete surrounding them bond them?


Also, what does this mean from the NEC pdf:

"The bonding conductor must be secured in or under the deck or unpaved surface within 4 in. to 6 in. below the subgrade"
 
The grid can be in or under the deck. It cannot be more than 6" below.

The safety cover anchors should be exempt because they are less than 4" and don't contact the water.

Aluminum tubes used with pavers might be an issue since they are more than 4", but they don't contact the water. So, they are probably exempt. And again, probably not reasonably possible.

In any case, bonding the anchors would not be reasonably possible and I don't think that anyone has ever bonded safety cover anchors.
 
JamesW said:
The grid can be in or under the deck. It cannot be more than 6" below.

The safety cover anchors should be exempt because they are less than 4" and don't contact the water.

Aluminum tubes used with pavers might be an issue since they are more than 4", but they don't contact the water. So, they are probably exempt. And again, probably not reasonably possible.

In any case, bonding the anchors would not be reasonably possible and I don't think that anyone has ever bonded safety cover anchors.
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Okay, that makes sense.

That's why I was asking. Bonding the anchors would be crazy to try and achieve.

So it sounds like I just need to cut a trench in the concrete, run the wire bonding everything together, and then see if that works.... Hopefully it will since that will be MUCH cheaper than completely replacing the concrete...
 
Rent a gas powered diamond saw and cut a groove in the concrete lay said wire in groove and connect to the rest of the bonding grid. Patch the groove with mortor or hydraulic cement. not as good as bonding to a rebar or wire mesh grid but it would be clean when finished and require a minimum amount or destruction and repair. You could always run more then one groove if your back doesn't hurt enough after the first one.
 
CJadamec said:
Rent a gas powered diamond saw and cut a groove in the concrete lay said wire in groove and connect to the rest of the bonding grid. Patch the groove with mortor or hydraulic cement. not as good as bonding to a rebar or wire mesh grid but it would be clean when finished and require a minimum amount or destruction and repair. You could always run more then one groove if your back doesn't hurt enough after the first one.
Click to expand...

Haha...I hear you.
 

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