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Thread: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    I am testing out a couple of new Pool Calculator features with a beta test version here.

    New features in this release include:

    * support for liquid stabilizer calculations.

    * a field for entering your fill waters CH level, for more accurate water replacement calculations with high CH fill water.

    * calculations for the amount of salt added by all the different forms of chlorine in the "Effects of adding chemicals" section.

    * a small tweak (a slight reduction) to the amount of acid needed to compensate for borax in the raising borates section

    As always I welcome testing and any comments you may have.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Excellent. You've done it again.

    The CH compensation in particular is great.

    Thanks again.
    Good Times

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    You're a smart guy Jason. I think that the new Pool Calculator is a keeper. Strong!

    Craig
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features



    I notice that the 'mouse over field...' feature for the liquid stabilizer is not functioning...

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    If you were using my Pool Equations spreadsheet for the salt calculations, it's not accurate because it just assumes that whatever is needed for leftover ionic balance such as introduced from extra TDS must be salt. Adding Trichlor doesn't add any salt in spite of what my spreadsheet says. That's something I could fix with some extra work, but I never got around to it.

    The actual salt amounts from adding Trichlor and Dichlor are zero. Bleach and chlorinating liquid add 8.2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC. Cal-Hypo is somewhere in between at around 2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC. Lithium Hypochlorite adds around 7.6 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC.

    In addition to the above, all sources of chlorine end up adding 8.2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC after the chlorine gets used up. Also, products added for pH adjustment may add forms of salt, though not necessarily chloride (i.e. sodium carbonate or sodium bisulfate).

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    chem geek, thanks. It looks like I got a couple of the salt numbers wrong. It is my intention to include the 8.2 ppm from the breakdown of chlorine, so all of the numbers should be at least that much. (EDIT)I have adjusted the beta version to reflect the corrected numbers(/EDIT).

    I have been planning to add Lithium Hypochlorite to the "Effects of adding chemicals" section. But I don't know what effect it has on the PH. I am also a little unclear on the concentrations it is sold in. Various places say things like 29% Lithium Hypochlorite and 35% available chlorine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    What is lithium hypochlorite?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    What is lithium hypochlorite?

    A very expensive form of powder chlorine, fast dissolving, doesn't contain CYA and is often sold as recommended for vinyl liner pools.

    I priced it out compared to bleach way back when. I'm still trying to recover

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    great work Jason,

    Any chance of adding a correction factor for Borate concentrations near 50ppm to the calculations for changing pH? I know many of us would find that useful.

    Thanks for your excellent contribution to our community.

    Marc
    My Pool
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Wal-Mart's 6% ultra bleach is now sold in 2.85 L bottles up here if that size can be added to the drop down.

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinguni
    Wal-Mart's 6% ultra bleach is now sold in 2.85 L bottles up here if that size can be added to the drop down.
    Sure, I can add that. Can you tell me all the jug sizes you come across?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    chem geek, thanks. It looks like I got a couple of the salt numbers wrong. It is my intention to include the 8.2 ppm from the breakdown of chlorine, so all of the numbers should be at least that much. (EDIT)I have adjusted the beta version to reflect the corrected numbers(/EDIT).

    I have been planning to add Lithium Hypochlorite to the "Effects of adding chemicals" section. But I don't know what effect it has on the PH. I am also a little unclear on the concentrations it is sold in. Various places say things like 29% Lithium Hypochlorite and 35% available chlorine.
    29% Lithium Hypochlorite by weight is 35.2% Available Chlorine and is pretty typical so that's what you should use. As for it's effect on pH, it is the same as any other hypochlorite source of chlorine -- a function solely of it's Available Chlorine amount remembering that Available Chlorine is a weight percent of chlorine relative to chlorine gas that is 100%. 6% Bleach is actually 6% Sodium Hypochlorite by weight and 6.17% "Trade" which is the percent of available chlorine by volume, but is 5.71% Available Chlorine by weight.

    So, multiplying the weight of Lithium Hypochlorite by 35.2% will give the weight equivalent of chlorine gas. One pound of Lithium Hypochlorite in 10,000 gallons of water raises the FC by 4.22 ppm and the pH from 7.5 to 7.67 at a TA of 100, identical to 8.7 ounces weight of Cal-Hypo 65% or 87.4 fluid ounces of 6% bleach.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinguni
    Wal-Mart's 6% ultra bleach is now sold in 2.85 L bottles up here if that size can be added to the drop down.
    Sure, I can add that. Can you tell me all the jug sizes you come across?
    All I've seen up here this year is 5 L and 2.85 L, although I think Superstore still has the 3.6 L regular bleach. I haven't bought any in some time though since I've been using tri-chlor to get the cya up. Next year I'm tossing the inline chlorinator though. Much easier to keep the water balanced with bleach.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    The mouse over for liquid stabilizer should work now. Thanks The Mermaid Queen.

    I added lithium hypochlorite to the Effects of adding chemicals section and the FC pop-up. Thanks chem geek.

    And I changed the metric bleach jug sizes to 2, 2.85, 3.6, and 5 liters. The 1 liter jug is gone, but that is really easy to figure out from the number of ml. Thanks Kinguni.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinguni
    Wal-Mart's 6% ultra bleach is now sold in 2.85 L bottles up here if that size can be added to the drop down.
    Sure, I can add that. Can you tell me all the jug sizes you come across?
    3.87 l (1 gallon I think)
    Club Pack size is 6.25 I believe, will confirm when I get home.
    40 x 16 IG Vinyl. Goldline SWG
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Excellent! What do you have a degree from MIT or something?? Oh wait.
    2003 Coleman MAAX Collection Model 706 - 400gal

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Hi Jason

    Great job with the calculator. Would it be possible to have an interchangeable value for the Muriatic Acid percentage? Around here, we don't have 31.45%. We have 29% which is very hard to find and 14.5% which is more common.
    30K gal. IG Free form
    Cartridge Filter, Solar and Gas Heater
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    I love your calculator and wanted to make a suggestion that might help newbies.

    The goal values should be changed based on what type of pool you have and if you have an SWG or not. I base this on the Recommended Levels link and is what I'm basing goals values with.

    If there were check-boxes or radio buttons at the top that allow the user to pick the flavor of pool they have then then the program could use that to fill in the appropriate values in the goal column.

    It appears that you use cookies to store default values from one run to the next but I find that the default goal values go back to their default value on occasion. Maybe they are only kept for the session which may explain it.

    Having different preset goal values for the pool type would be pretty cool and I think valuable for newbies like me.

    If you didn't change a thing, it's still a pretty sharp program.
    16' Intex Metal Frame AGP with vinyl liner, ~5100 Gal, 637R 1000 GPH & 633 2500 GPH pumps w/cartridge filters, Intex SWCG

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    AnnaK's Avatar
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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Hi Jason,

    On my wish list for the Calculator is a lye (NAOH) calculation. I use lye rather than borax and, at this point, go mostly with best guesses, calculating for borax and then using 1/3 of that.
    — AnnaK —

    12,000 gal AGP, Hayward sand filter, Pentair 2-speed pump, timer.
    Please visit our Pool Issues pages for information about step weights, managing the solar cover, and PoolSkim.

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    Re: Testing a couple of new Pool Calculator features

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    If you were using my Pool Equations spreadsheet for the salt calculations, it's not accurate because it just assumes that whatever is needed for leftover ionic balance such as introduced from extra TDS must be salt. Adding Trichlor doesn't add any salt in spite of what my spreadsheet says. That's something I could fix with some extra work, but I never got around to it.

    The actual salt amounts from adding Trichlor and Dichlor are zero. Bleach and chlorinating liquid add 8.2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC. Cal-Hypo is somewhere in between at around 2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC. Lithium Hypochlorite adds around 7.6 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC.

    In addition to the above, all sources of chlorine end up adding 8.2 ppm salt for every 10 ppm FC after the chlorine gets used up. Also, products added for pH adjustment may add forms of salt, though not necessarily chloride (i.e. sodium carbonate or sodium bisulfate).

    Richard
    If you are using the LQ for your chlorine system, are you still adding salt to the pool?

    I think the LQ is supposed to leave the salt in the bottom of the LQ's tank. Not sure if it is true since I only see the "brown blob", reminds me of the movie The Blob, at the bottom.
    Joe

    21k IG vinyl, 300 lb. sand filter, 1hp pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, 3/4hp booster pump, 240sq ft Fafco solar, Liquidator

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