Continuing issue with PH rise

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wkillham

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Oct 24, 2010
28
Pasadena, MD
Hi, I've been having an issue with PH rise since my pool was new. I have to add nearly a gallon of acid per week just to keep things in check. After reading about borate last summer I decided to try it and see if it would help (it has not). What really baffles me is the rise I get when to pool is closed for the winter! While closing the pool last November I lowered the PH to 7.2. Everything else was fine. FC 2.0, TA 90, CH 300, CYA 80, salt 3,600 , borate 50.

I opened the pool Saturday and the PH was off the scale. Using an acid demand test I estimate it was around 8.6-8.8. Borate was good, TA was 100 and salt was 3,500. Since I have a solid cover I only drop the water level about 8" and I re-filled by directing my cover pump hose into the pool during our recent monsoons.

What the heck is going on? I understand how the SWG will cause PH to rise while running but every winter I have this same issue and the resultant scale. I'm about to ditch the SWG but don't think it will make much difference. HELP!!
 
Something is not right here, but I can't tell what. That much acid should have made a very dramatic difference in your PH reading. Now might be a good moment to make sure your PH test reagent is still good and nothing is interfering with the PH test.

The PH test can be completely wrong when FC is above 15, which doesn't seem to be an issue here. The PH reagent can also go bad. If it is over two years old, froze, or was left in sunlight for a day or more, or somewhere above 100 for a week or more, it could have gone bad.

If you have anything else that measures PH, or perhaps a pool store water test, now would be a good time to try it as a double check.
 
Well, I had Leslie test and they came up with 7.8 PH, 120 TA, 2500 salt (said they could not test borax). AS tested same day and got 8.6 PH, 60 TA, 3500 salt and 0.0 borax. The AS numbers seem closer but the borax scares me (I know it's @ 40-50) and they we telling me my salt was too high (Zodiac recommends 4000), wanted me to shock the pool and were trying to sell me PhosFree even after telling them I used cellulose DE substitute and have never had an algae problem.

So, should I buy new reagent for my PoolMaster 5 way kit or toss it and buy a new one? I've never really concerned myself with anything other than TA and PH since everything else is pretty stable.
 
I have a similar problem; no matter what I do, I keep adding acid at about a gallon a month (or more) - I keep getting high PH creep. I keep the TA around 90-120, and try to maintain PH @ 7.2. I tend to manage the CL at 3PPM cause I don't like to have too high -- and I don't seem to have algae problems. It Seems whenever i add more water to the pool the PH seems to get higher. I've been told by Leslies' that my water is "old" and I should half drain the pool cause i have too much NDS (non-disolved solids) -- I don't really know if this is really true. I've heard of other pool guys talking about "old water", but with the drought here I just can't see myself draining the pool. I've recently found another source of muratic acid that has a higher percentage so i dont' have to add as much, but still wondering what's causing the PH rise.
 
I have to add a gallon plus per week. I would run as fast as I could from Leslie. They try to sell you things you don't need (phosphate reducers being one of the more expensive), give you incorrect advice ("TDS is high you need to drain your pool) and their testing is WRONG!

Read the post on salt water generators. That is what is raising your PH. The only problem I cannot understand is why my PH shoots up over the winter when the SWG is not running.

I've ordered a new test kit (TF-100) so I can do all of my own testing. With my old kit I could not test CH or CYA so I would go to one of the local pool stores for that and their other results (always much different than mine) were driving me nuts. No more of that...
 

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edavis6678 said:
I have a similar problem; no matter what I do, I keep adding acid at about a gallon a month (or more) - I keep getting high PH creep. I keep the TA around 90-120, and try to maintain PH @ 7.2. I tend to manage the CL at 3PPM cause I don't like to have too high -- and I don't seem to have algae problems. It Seems whenever i add more water to the pool the PH seems to get higher. I've been told by Leslies' that my water is "old" and I should half drain the pool cause i have too much NDS (non-disolved solids) -- I don't really know if this is really true. I've heard of other pool guys talking about "old water", but with the drought here I just can't see myself draining the pool. I've recently found another source of muratic acid that has a higher percentage so i dont' have to add as much, but still wondering what's causing the PH rise.
Click to expand...
It's the fill water. Test a sample straight out of the hose. High TA will push pH up. Every time you add water, you add TA and pH climbs.
 
Hi, I received my shiny new TF-100 last night and performed my first tests. The PH and TA are pretty close to what my old kit was telling me but I'm a bit shocked at my CH. I tested again this morning to make sure I hadn't contaminated my results with cervesa last night.

PH 7.5
FC 11
CC 0
TC 11
CH ~550
TA 60
CYA ~20
Borates ~50
Salt 4200

The chlorine is high because I was running the pump for the heatpump yesterday but the CH really surprises me. The evil pool stores had me in the 200-300 range.

Any thoughts? Other than PH rise I don't really have issues. CH may have risen as I've lowered TA? I'll test my fill water later but am sure it's acidic but dont think I have a hardness issue.

Onto the honey do list, which does not include playing with the pool...
 
As a follow up I tested my fill water. The PH is below 6.0 (can't test any lower) and the TA is below 10. When I test the TA at the point that I'm adding the 5 drops of R-0008 the solution turns pink as soon as mixed. I added 1 drop of R-0009 to turn it from pink to red. I performed both tests twice to be sure it was not me

Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Richard320 said:
It's the fill water. Test a sample straight out of the hose. High TA will push pH up. Every time you add water, you add TA and pH climbs.
Click to expand...

So I checked the water right out of the tap; you are correct -- looks like that's where my need for Acid is coming from...

TA = 130
PH = 8.0
CL = 1ppm

Is that right, water out of the tap has that much chlorine, or was the test just off cause it was so little?
 
Hi, I've had my TF-100 for about a week now and am puzzled by the CH readings I'm getting. I keep getting readings of between 450-550. Two different pool stores are consistently showing 240-260. One of the stores is completely computerized (A&S) which would normally comfort me but they also tell me my borate is 0 and I know it's around 50 ppm. I've tested the CH 5-6 times with the same results. An item of note, the solution never really turns red. It's more of a pink/violet but does turn distinctively blue. Any thought?

BTW, bringing TA down seems to have stabilized the PH

The remaining results are:

FC 10
CC 0
TC 10
CH 450
TA 60
CYA 35 (JUST ADDED 4 LBS A FEW DAYS AGO)
PH 7.5
 
wkillham said:
Hi, I've had my TF-100 for about a week now and am puzzled by the CH readings I'm getting. I keep getting readings of between 450-550. Two different pool stores are consistently showing 240-260. One of the stores is completely computerized (A&S) which would normally comfort me but they also tell me my borate is 0 and I know it's around 50 ppm. I've tested the CH 5-6 times with the same results. An item of note, the solution never really turns red. It's more of a pink/violet but does turn distinctively blue. Any thought?

BTW, bringing TA down seems to have stabilized the PH

The remaining results are:

FC 10
CC 0
TC 10
CH 450
TA 60
CYA 35 (JUST ADDED 4 LBS A FEW DAYS AGO)
PH 7.5
Click to expand...

Is your area known for "hard" water? FWIW, my area is, and that CH is on par with our fill water. I've never seen red on the CH test. I don't think a true "red" is expected. I have a strong distrust for electronic lab equipment when I don't know/trust the operator. I have no clue about water testing devices used in pool stores, I suspect they need regular calibration, I don't trust that this happens as frequently as it should.
 

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