DIY In~Ground Vinyl Lined Pool Kits

[Guest]

- Electrical. You can run the wiring from your house to the pump pad, and pad to pool if you have lights. I used regular indoor 10/3 cable (2 runs) in a single 3/4" conduit for feeds and 12/3 indoor in conduit for lights. I only got hit on one thing: You can't have more than (4) 90 degree bends in any one conduit run without an access point. I did the bonding also, but with all the confusion about it - let the electrician do it when he makes all the connections. I saved about $800 buying and running the electrical.

Just something to point out on this suggestion.

Did you use ROMEX cable or single wires for this install?

For proper cooling of the wire, wire in conduit must be individual wires, not multiwire wrapped cables such as ROMEX. As well their size cannot use more than 60% of the space for wires.

2 - 10/3 combos in a 3/4" conduit will consume more than 60% of the space and would lead to overheating inside the conduit.

The wires insulation will breakdown when overheated. You may need to repull the correct wiring for this install, especially if you used ROMEX style wire (that which is inside your walls that you have to split to get to the wires).

Also, 10/3 is rated for 30 Amps up to a certain length of wire. What amperage are you running on this circuit? Based on the length you may need to increase to 8/3 instead, again because of resistance causing a voltage drop over the long length of wires.

 

[brianspool]

Thanks for that info mtbarr64.

Being somewhat anal, I had to go check this out. I ran the electic in this manner for three reasons:
- I had to use conduit because the run goes under a driveway.
- The electrician I hired said it was fine and would pass inspection.
- Indoor cable and conduit was cheaper than outdoor cable.

There appears to be much debate about whether this method meets code. From what I can glean after a quick google there is nothing in the national code that prohibits it, but there are restrictions in some localities. It is not prohibited in my county, and the inspector that passed my electric actually required me to pull the two 10/3's out of the panel and wall and place them in a piece of flexible conduit for the entire indoor run from the outside wall to the panel.

Regardless of the confusion, what you say makes sense, especially the '60%' rule. I'll be running single strands in bigger conduit from now on. 8)

 

[Guest]

I am not telling you what to do by any means, I just want to clarify for others reading and thinking of doing this. Give the information and let them decide.

I wasn't saying to use direct burial multiwire cable (outdoor) instead of the conduit. This is way expensive. I always run conduit so you can repull if you need to. I was stating to use single wire that comes off the spool inside the conduit. You get the single black, white, red and green wires and pull them together through the conduit.

The NEC (national electrical code) is pretty much the standard of the US for safe electrical installations. Local jurisdictions are the ones that "verify" compliance by "inspection." Knowing how many areas of the country work, I am sure that some inspectors let things slide to save the homeowners cost and redoing work, but that does not mean they are the safest installations.

In my opinion and for myself, I always over engineer because I would never want to be responsible for someone else being harmed because of something I did, especially to save a few buck.

You may want to put an A/C voltmeter on the line near the pump and confirm the voltage does not drop significantly from the voltage at where you made the connection for the new runs. A big voltage drop would indicate the need for larger wires on the circuit.

This is not just a safety issue but an energy savings issue too. It is more efficient to run the current through a larger wire on long runs since the heat generated in the smaller conductor is electricity lost.

 

[ChrisNC]

Just my 2 cents....for what its worth :-D

Check the outer jacket of the wire and see if it's NM-B cable. In past experience we usually get alot of ground water
in our pipes.

Solid or stranded single conductors have an insulation type thwn, which are are rated for wet locations.

334.12(B)(4) is the NEC code article that applies....again just my 2 cents.


chris

 

[ChrisNC]

Mevan

Here is some of the things or experiences that I have done in the past.

carpentry- 12 x12 shed, Deck 650 sq ft deck, Crown, Common odds and ends

concrete flat work- house keeping pads for transformers and switchgears, site lighting pole base

plumbing- watched a ton of it. But never done much plumbing besides install a new sink

electrical- installed a fair share of pipe and wire

pools- done the electrical on 8 or so commercial pools with waterfalls and waterbuckets (all gunite though )

excavating-experience on: skid steer,mini-ex, backhoe, trecher, plate tamper, jumping jack.

I understand each trade has their tricks of the trades or common pit falls....So mostly thats what I've been reading on the internet to learn and avoid. Also, Know when its best to call in the professionals.

chris

 

[brianspool]

Thanks for the info, I love this site.
I was all over this issue last night when I got home. The first thing I did was go look at my conduit. It's 1-1/4", not 3/4", see old pic below. (I used 3/4 recently for an outlet and I guess it was stuck in my fading brain). So I'm good there. But, I'm still concerned about the romex and ground water issues. I'll be re-pulling #8 single strands this winter while the pool is closed. The run is 70' but there's only one 45 degree bend so it shouldn't be too bad. I have the bend marked with tape in case I need to dig it up there.
Thanks again for getting me straight on this. I'm like you, I never want to be in a position where someone got hurt because of something I did incorrectly.

 

[Guest]

Mevan,

After hijacking the thread for the electrical dicussion, I believe that most of the work you need to do is within the ability of many people.

There are plenty of DIY resources on the web now so check them out. Concrete slabs are not that hard. The hardest part is getting the surface perfect. We do the exposed aggregate finish in the Nortwest and that lends itself greatly to the DIY person.

You can always talk to your local hardware store or even in some case Home Depot or Lowes employees. If you find good ones, you can get all the guidance you need.

You have time so check out how to do the work and see what you feel comfortable with.

 

[MEvan]

I agree that most people can do this. I just wanted to know what knowledge we are working with when it comes time to explain things in detail. When you decide on a kit let us know. Feel free to PM me with questions also

 

[bigdave]

Make it a family project and enjoy the results. All said and done I save about 15k from what a friend at work had professionally installed, same size pool and features.

I hired out the backhoe, electrical, finished concrete, and auto cover. Everything else I did myself, with the help of my dad, family and a couple friends. Learned a few things the hard way, but mistakes will happen and you correct them.

The laser level is critical, not only in digging the hole, but putting up the walls. My backhoe company left his laser level for me to use for the weekend to finish putting up my walls (cool guy). If you don't get these level, you pool water will be offset in different areas of the pool.

You will see the scuba gear at work in one of the pictures. Had a leak in the pool and troubleshooted down to the drain. My twin drains came with two plugs in each, I only used one of them and left the other alone....bad...you are suppose to glue to tape the other side water tight. We used 1 1/2 plugs tapped up and switched them under water. Had to be careful to do it quick so the pressure didn't bubble the liner.

If you do the pvc piping yourself, try and make the least amount of bends and connections as possible. Also carefully consider where to put the equipment pad for noise, access, and even adding a solar heater (how to run pipe to roof of house,etc..).

I broke the record for inground pool completion with water being put in the pool within two weeks. What a lot of work. The poolcrete about killed me. It wasn't really hard, but trying to get it all done in my time line was crazy.

You will need at least 6 guys to help with the liner installation, maybe less but the more the better. Plan on spending the next 2 months doing landscaping....LOL

Hope you enjoy your adventure, my family did. Also, get a salt water generator. Best investment you will ever make. Makes keeping a clean clear pool very easy.

 

[Casey]

FABULOUS RESULTS BigDave!

I can't wait to start mine someday! 8)

 

[ChrisNC]

You did a great job Bigdave!
Wow 2 weeks!!! I bet you were ready to relax around the pool after that schedule!!!

Chris

 

[Butterfly]

Great job there, bigdave! :bowdown: :bowdown:

I'll bet Casey is going crazy wanting to start!

 

[Casey]

I've been excited!! Just going to pool school with waste as a teacher is going to be one of my best school experiences so I'm pretty excited that he decided to take this on and walk not only me through this but others as well. <thank you waste!! Can't wait to get started 8) >

I'll explode when the time really comes!

 

[bigdave]

Thanks!!!!!

Its a lot of work, but well worth the payoff in the end. Just saying that "I Built it" is a huge accomplishment. When it all falls into place it is an amazing feeling. Every time you walk out and swim or just check the chemicals you have pride and true ownership in your work. Not sure what it would be like to have someone else do it and just swim, but I'm sure I wouldn't think of it as my baby and treat it as such.

If you can help it, don't put yourself through the stress I did by pulling it off in two weeks. Scheduling and getting everything done in a crazy time line can create a stressful home. It also can cause you to cut corners at times. The biggest problems I had was getting the city to show up and sign off on the different stages. Contractors are also not very timely as you really aren't paying them a lot, but they are critical to the build.

Do not over dig the hole. I played it safe and under dug the whole, worst case is I had to have a 4 inch lip of concrete around the entire pool, but it payed off because the grass doesn't get in the pool. Bringing in fill dirt was a pain to build up the lip to allow for me to install my brick surround on the outer edge of the cement, as seen in pix.

If you look for internet packages like I did, do your research. Get quotes from different companies and research...research...research....

I live in Boise Idaho where we get snow, the aqua genies are a great invention if you live somewhere that doesn't freeze, otherwise they are a pain in the a__ to winterize. You can see my recent tip post for winterizing, a real pain. I researched but didn't find anyone telling me how much of a pain.

You will have tons of questions along the way. Use this Board and also look to a local resource. I found that the backhoe operator I hired had connections to get me some stuff for the build local. Like poolcrete at a reduced cost. Had him also bring in rock backfill and place in correct locations. He also was cheaper to do the prep work for the concrete so I had him back to grade and prep.

Take your time on the pipe work, once it's covered your SOL if you have a leak. Pressure check your lines for leaks in your glue jobs. I also found that I could heat up my pvc on my bbq to make short bends instead of using extra fittings.

I also went with an autocover, I can't say enough of how awesome they are at keeping your pool clean, keeping your chemicals from vanishing, safety for you kids, and locking it down when your on vacation. They are expensive, but we felt it was worth every penny. We contracted it out and they also gave us some hints during the build. Get a few local bids on this as well. They are tricky and you will definitely want local support on this. I have had them out 3 or 4 times for adjustments since purchasing.

Seriously evaluate the type of heater, gas is great but it costs money to heat. Solar is sweet as it always heats off the sun and cheaper for initial startup. I have friends that really like their solar.

Better stop while I can, otherwise I will keep rambling...Best of luck

 

[waste]

There are some great pics here of a recent pool build. Most probably we'll start our discussions on DIY pools within a month

I know you want to get going on this, but patience is a virtue -- it will turn out a whole lot better if we take our time and make sure we cover everything

Luv & Luk

 

[Casey]

Just checking in. 8)

 

[waste]

Casey, it has started! Here

Luv & Luk!!

Ted