Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

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steveg_nh

steveg_nh

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Oct 7, 2013
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Southern NH
I can't find any paperwork to give to my patio installer, showing what height the swim ladder should be installed at. He's getting ready to pout the foundation for the coping, and what's to set the cups, but we aren't sure what the recommended height is off the pool wall, deck height to top step, etc.

Can anyone provide any guidance?

Thanks.
 
All of the ladders I have seen fix their own height by mounting in the decking. The lower supports rest on the pool wall. In other words, you cannot adjust the "height" of the ladder. Is that what you are asking?
 
steveg_nh said:
Not really. When mounting the cups that the ladder goes into, as part of pool construction, into concrete below the deck (or in the deck), at what height should they be?
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The cups need to be flush with the concrete (or deck). When you put the ladder in, the chrome covers then lay flat on the concrete to cover the cups and bolts. Really no measuring needed, again they have to be flush with the concrete deck.
 
joenj-Ladder.jpg


Is this the style you're talking about? If so, the cups should be flush or just below flush with the finished height of the decking. The flange covers create the finished look and rest against the deck as long as the cups aren't too high.
 
Yes, thanks! My neighbors are WAY below grade....which is why I was worried I wasn't sure how to set them.

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Thanks a ton by the way!

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This begs me to ask one more question...so what's the typical height of that top step, from the deck usually?
 
LOL. Thanks. But we do have one more question. How can the cup be flush with the deck (which will be pavers) AND fully encased in concrete? The concrete pad is below, the pavers, and the pavers are 3 1/8" thick. If the cup is even with the finsihed grade, only about 1" of cup is in the concrete which is certainly not enough. If the entire cup is in the concrete footing below the pavers, it's 3 1/8" below the finish grade. I'm missing something.
 
With pavers over concrete, I would think (again this is opinion with no experience) you would want the cup imbedded in the concrete to be secure, then the pavers could be put over the concrete and cup and then the flange could sit on top of the pavers for a finished look.

I am not sure if there is a code related to the relative height of the top step to the top of the deck or not.
 
The cup and the flange could sit on the pavers? Not following that, if the cup is in the concrete. What the patio builder is thinking, is the cup 90% in the concrete below the pavers. Maybe the top 1/2" isn't. Then the paver sits on top of the concrete. So when viewing the cup from the paver, it's recessed about 3" below the paver surface. The flange would cover the whole around the rail...this creates a top step of about 9.5-10" to the water level. My steps on the later, as is, are 9" apart.
 

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steveg_nh said:
The cup and the flange could sit on the pavers? Not following that, if the cup is in the concrete. What the patio builder is thinking, is the cup 90% in the concrete below the pavers. Maybe the top 1/2" isn't. Then the paver sits on top of the concrete. So when viewing the cup from the paver, it's recessed about 3" below the paver surface. The flange would cover the whole around the rail...this creates a top step of about 9.5-10" to the water level. My steps on the later, as is, are 9" apart.
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Your setup is exactly like mine. We embedded the cups into the concrete, but held them up up some a little short of the height of the paver.
 
I was thinking that there might be an alternate style of mounting cup for this situation, versus the one used for a concrete-to-grade deck surface. It would be an easy thing for the manufacturer to make, it would just have a longer base but the cup depth for the pipes to drop in would only be partially down the cup. I would inquire of the ladder manufacturer to see if one is available. Otherwise, you will have a first step into the water that is a few inches more than it would otherwise be (and the top of the railings will be that much lower also), though maybe not a big deal either.
 
bmoreswim said:
I was thinking that there might be an alternate style of mounting cup for this situation, versus the one used for a concrete-to-grade deck surface. It would be an easy thing for the manufacturer to make, it would just have a longer base but the cup depth for the pipes to drop in would only be partially down the cup. I would inquire of the ladder manufacturer to see if one is available. Otherwise, you will have a first step into the water that is a few inches more than it would otherwise be (and the top of the railings will be that much lower also), though maybe not a big deal either.
Click to expand...

Our first step is about an inch more into the water, but we never notice it. We did not raise our cups to the top of the paver, just raised them a slight amount about an 1".
 
I was told you can get longer cups, but I can't find any. My pool builder used some type of plastic cups that feel very strong, that he said were resistant to corrosion since this is a salt system. I believe him, given that he didn't cut any corners anywhere else. My neighbors pool is done like we're talking about too - his cups are just about at the bottom edge of the paver, so about 3" below finish grade. Am i way overthinking this? LOL
 
steveg_nh said:
Am i way overthinking this? LOL
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Probably but who doesn't do that on at least some aspects of their build! For me I wish it was just some.

As mentioned above, the difference in step height probably won't make any real-world difference. The corrosion resistance is a key for sure.
 
Thank all. We're going with the cups fully in concrete, just below the pavers. It's a 2.5" difference. The builder is pouring one heck of a pad for the railings and ladder though. And he's installed drain tubes on all the cups so it any way can drain out of them. Seriously a great job!
 
With regards to the cups. I also do two additional things.

1. I pump marine lube into the cups prior to putting ladder in.

2. I caulk with outdoor clear caulk around the stop after ladder is in.

The caulk helps keep water out, and the lube makes it easier to get the ladder out in the fall.
 
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