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Thread: questions about BBB Method

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    questions about BBB Method

    OK, I have to say I have been a little reluctant to go fully to the BBB Method. However, after reading the site and learning more about the pool chemistry, I have decided to go to that method.

    Now, for the statistics. My water is clear. No problem there. My concern is with CYA of 65-70 based on my TF100 kit. We have had some rain and now its finally sunny outside today. My decision today is to vacuum on waste and turn the hose on to replace water while cleaning the pool at the same time.

    I stopped using the pucks so that CYA stops being added to the water. 70 is not bad, but its not really good either.

    So, I have enough Sodium BiCarbonate or TA and I have enough Soda Ash or Sodium Carbonate PH so I should be fine on that end for the summer I hope. My main concern is what is the difference between Sodium Carbonate and Sodim Tetraborate or Borax? They both increase PH don't they?

    Also, I have been using liquid chlorine, but am finding out my pool place is not as good as a deal as I thought or at least I think anyway. Lets here what you guys think. Here is the numbers on that:

    They charge me $5.25 a gallon for 12.5% on a 128oz jug at my pool store. Is that a good deal? I plan to run down to Walmart after dinner today to check on the 6% ultra bleach cost. Yea, I know I will need to double the amount added to my pool, but its here in town unlike our pool store thats 100 miles away So I think buying the 6% bleach and just having to add a double dose of it will get me the same results correct?

    I have found that adding 22 oz of the 12.5% is about what I need a day so my math should be double then for the 6% to get me those same results and keep my FC at about 3-6 ppm is where I want it with a CYA of 50 is where I should be at when I get done today with it and then retest it with the 50 CYA goal or at least I hope anyway.

    I also have an iron/copper issue in the water and I still have to add a metal sequester from the pool place. That part they test for me and have been really great on giving me free readings and then printing those results out for me and even faxing me a copy. I just have been mailing them a pool water sample. Cheaper considering the gas prices now days and that the closest pool place is 100 miles away!

    CH is good at 150 ppm considering I have a vinly lined pool. My TA is 90 and PH is at 7.2 which once I replace water will need to be readded again and then retested later today.

    Once I get this done today, I will repost my numbers for everyone.

    So, give me your comments please. I am curious what others have found to work well with the least time & cost involved.

    I sure appreciate it and that test kit I got from Dave is awesome!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    Soda ash raises TA some along with raising PH, borax raises TA much less for the same PH change.

    $5.25 a gallon for 12.5% isn't an amazing deal. That is about 4 cents an oz, which would be 2 cents for an oz of 6% bleach. Many people find 6% bleach for just over 1 cent per oz, though that often takes some hunting around.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    Thanks Jason. I will go to Borax (Sodium Tetraborate) for my next purchase instead if I need more and try looking for that in the grocery store. What would they call that?

    I will run to Walmart later and switch now to the 6% bleach instead. Just tested my FC and its at 3.5 ppm right now with a CC of near zero to less than .5 according to the TF100 kit.

    Thanks
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    20 Mule Team Borax natural laundry booster, in a green box, is normally found in the Laundry aisle of larger grocery stores and various big box stores. It contains sodium tetraborate decahydrate, and is called borax around here.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    Thanks!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    We have the Borax here as well and its about 4.3 cents and ounce. The Baking Soda is about 4 cents an ounce. Both are at the local grocery store. I plan to head to Walmart later to compare prices including the ultra bleach. Should be interesting.

    Heading out the door now to start working on cleaning the mess in the pool from the Wind/Thunderstorms yesterday. I will get more numbers out later this afternoon for some suggestions. CYA is my main concern right now as I want to keep that under control so that the FC does its job properly to keep the CC/Algae at bay the rest of the summer.

    Again Thanks!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    OK, did the cleaning. Pool looks really awesome right now. Did it on waste and removed all of the **** in the pool.

    Here are the test results:

    FC- 2
    CC - .5
    TC - 2.5
    PH- 7 or 7.2 abouts
    TA - 90
    CH - 175
    CYA - 60 Better

    OK, so I went on the pool calculator and with my 12.5% chlorine bottle that I have yet I plan to put in 48oz of bleach, 2 lbs of PH, and 3 pounds of calcium abouts.

    I plan to do this now and then run to Walmart.

    Pool temp is 82!

    I want to be sure I am not missing anything. I am a bit anal ( says the wife) but I just want to be sure I have all ends covered chemically anyway.

    What are your thoughts!

    I will try to post some pics later today.

    Thanks
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    Quote Originally Posted by reindeerboy
    OK, did the cleaning. Pool looks really awesome right now. Did it on waste and removed all of the **** in the pool.

    Here are the test results:

    FC- 2
    CC - .5
    TC - 2.5
    PH- 7 or 7.2 abouts
    TA - 90
    CH - 175
    CYA - 60 Better

    OK, so I went on the pool calculator and with my 12.5% chlorine bottle that I have yet I plan to put in 48oz of bleach, 2 lbs of PH, and 3 pounds of calcium abouts.

    I plan to do this now and then run to Walmart.

    Pool temp is 82!

    I want to be sure I am not missing anything. I am a bit anal ( says the wife) but I just want to be sure I have all ends covered chemically anyway.

    What are your thoughts!

    I will try to post some pics later today.

    Thanks
    First using sodium carbonate (pH up) is going to make your TA rise faster than using baking soda. If you are only trying to raise the pH and not change the TA (and yours is perfect right now) then use either borax or, even better, aerate the water. That will outgas CO2 and cause the pH to rise withouth having ANY impact on the TA.
    Second, NEVER add calcium and either sodium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) at the same time unless you want a cloudy pool!
    Why are you adding calcium? Your current level is fine for a vinyl pool.
    If your pool store sells liquid chlorine in carboys it's often cheaper than in the 1 gal bottles. I would check out the price of laundry bleach in your area. $5.25 a gallon seems high to me for 12.5%. I would compare that to what 2 gal of laundry bleach will cost you. We sell a 1 gal for $3.29 and sell 2.5 gal carboy for $3.99 on a refill for the pool chlorine where I work.

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    Understood on the Calcium. Decided to not add it. I actually found the warranty on the vinyl liner and it states directly in it to have CH at 100 minimum so I left it alone. I know not to mix chems. I worked as a Dairy Farmer for many years as a kid growing up and learnt really quick to not mix chems.

    I will plan to switch to Borax on the PH. I only had to add a pound so when I retested the TA, it did not change the reading and I did it twice so that was good. I also threw the kid in today. She and I aerated the **** out if it and when I was done, here is what it looked like:

    http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

    Test results tonight after adding in the correct insturctions from the pool calculater and using the 6% ultra bleach was as follows:

    FC - 4.5
    CC - 0
    TC - 4.5
    PH - 7.5
    TA- 90
    CH-175
    CYA - 60

    Now for as the price, I went to Walmart and did some quick number crunching. Found out I can get a 174 oz bottle of ultra bleach for $2.50 a bottle. Now when you do the math, I come out better price wise using the bleach.

    I plan to do a little of both though to still give my pool guy some business as he has been really good to me. I did find that Borax was at 4 cents for a 4 pound container so I will look harder in town in other stores for a better deal on that. I have enough baking soda for the year, and I still have about 20 pounds of Soda Ash as well so until that goes away, I wont' need to get any Borax at all and just plan to use the pool a bit more to do the aeration of it.

    Thanks waterbear. I have to say that you guys sure know your ****. I have been on other sites and have seen you there such as the pool and spa site and one other one as well. Richard chimed in one time about a guy saying that bleach would hurt your hair. It was really hillareous because it was a pool guy who said he had 30 years of experience?

    Again thanks and everythings seems to be on the go except I will need to get some more test kit replacement supplies I think. Either than that, I am really happy with how the pool is looking and spent maybe an hour and a half today total on it including the vacuuming on waste cleanup job!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: questions about BBB Method

    OK, now I am a bit ticked.

    Found a pin sized hole where the water line is at in my vinly liner. I dont think it is all the through, but I didnt want to chance it so I went ahead and put a very small patch on it. Luckily the previous owner of the house had some pieces from the install of the pool liner in 2003.

    I cut a small circle out and added the additive to the patch and put it on. Held it there a bit, and it seemed to work. You cant really see it at all as the patch matches in very nicely.

    Has anyone had an issue with these patches comming off at all or loose during winterization due to no water pushing on it?

    I was just curious as to what others of you have encountered?

    Thanks
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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