Foaming Problem

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alexdash

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Mar 11, 2014
19
Lawrenceville, GA
Hello,

my spa foams when jets are running, and pool foams when backup valve for polaris pools cleaner brings it up to the surface.

the pool is 25K with spa with 8 jets on the side.

It has compool 3400 panel, whisperflo 1.5 hp pump, 48 DE filter, minimax heater, inline chorinator, nature2 cardridge, air blower for spa.

The chemistry is as follows:

FAC 2.0
TAC 2.0
Water PH 7.6
TA 120
CYA 30
Calcium Hardness 230
TDS 500
Coper/Iron 0
Phosphates 100

I use Pool Perfect + phos free 3 cups / week in the skimmer

Foam disolves on its own 20-30 seconds after jets stop running (water clears up), and after polaris goes to the bottom.

If I wade with my hand or the brush in the pool while brushing the walls , the foam reappears and then disolves on its own

It started last year in the middle of the season after I added 1 qt of black algie killer instead of regular algie control (green /mustard algie control) because the store did not have my brand at the time.

The foaming was really bad for 6-8 weeks and was almost gone after using several gallons of defoamer (the spa used to have a head of foam like in the beer mug - about a foot high or so) ...

So, now before new season starts I would like to get rid of this small foaming problem , but do not know how.

Can you help please?

Thank you in advance
 
Welcome to TFP.

There are several things that cause foaming. Algaecide is one and the rest of the "magic" potions (Pool Perfect and PhosFree) isn't helping. The nature2 isn't doing you any favors either.

The best thing you can do is spend some time reading in Pool School, especially the ABC's of Pool Chemistry and start using the methods outlined there.

I see that you list a CYA of 30 ppm, but you also use a tablet feeder. Unless you've just replaced a large portion of your water, I'd be highly suspect of that reading. It's most likely a lot higher than that.

Now would also be a good time to get a good test kit and take control of your pool.
 
:wave: Welcome to TFP!!!

There are a lot of red flags in your post that are counter to what we generally teach here and I think Dave hit on most of them.
- Trichlor tablet feeders can result in over stabilized pools that turn green due to lack of adequate chlorine
- Nature 2 adds minerals to the water that can cause staining of the pool and green hair and really does nothing that chlorine along can't do.
- We hardly ever recommend using any algeacides / Pool Perfect / PhosFree / etc ... there is no need if adequate chlorine is maintained.
- Test results from a pool store which are generally regarded as inaccurate and inconsistent

I would guess that your foaming is due to all the "extra" chemicals you are adding to your pool. First step would be to stop adding anything except chlorine (ideally liquid / bleach). You also need one of the Recommended Test Kits if you want to understand and control your pool's chemistry. And by reading Pool School you will likely know more about the chemistry than most of the pool store employees you have encountered. Start with these:
ABCs of Water Chemistry
Recommended Pool Chemicals
How to Chlorinate Your Pool

I would guess that if you maintain an elevated FC level for awhile and not add any more "potions" that the foaming will stop.

How does your water look besides the foaming? Any cloudiness or visible algae?
 
Thank you for the prompt responses!

The CYA of 30 was measured at the pool store where they test the water from my pool for the past 15 years (and yes, I was for years buying the algicide from them every spring summer when something was blooming in the neighbors' yards and I had to get rid of the green/yellow stains from my pool walls , except for that last year when on that dereadful day they did not have the regular algie control and I decided to try the black algie killer) , so their measurements are consistently between 30 and 45 for CYA throughout the years.

Having said this , I will definetely read the Pool School instructions:

ABCs of Water Chemistry
Recommended Pool Chemicals
How to Chlorinate Your Pool

and will follow the advice there.

The answer the the last posted questions: the water looks very clear and sparkling, there is no cloudness nor algie (yet give it sometime till june or july until something in my neighbours yeards blooms again ) ... however, and this is the kicker : after spa runs (and foams) , and I turn the jets off - (20-30 seconds later the foam disolves) but water stays milky for about 5-8 minutes (probably due to some elevelated levels of the anti-foam in it ) and then clears up again and becomes as sparkling as in the adjacent to it pool. I thnk that it might be due the the fact that the spill-over into the pool is there and at that point the whole system acts like a one big giant pool rather than separate pool and spa systems. Am I right, or do you have another idea / answer?

I have a question : what do you mean by an elevated FC level for awhile ? 5-6? or higher. I did maintain that level for the past 4 months (Nov - Feb) because we did no use the pool in the winter but kept it running (the comppol has that freeze thingy that turns the pool/spa on/off intermittenly when air tem drops below certain level) .

For how long should I maintain this elevated FC level and not adding any more potions for the foaming to stop?'

Thank you in advance.
 
We see it all the time. They may be using the Taylor kit but time after time their results don't match an individual's test results.

You'd think they'd be pretty close but in real world samples pH is about the only thing they are consistently close on. And CYA is the one thing they're the most wrong on. It's much better to do your own testing.
 
According to the FC/CYA Chart, and assuming (pretty big assumption here until you test for yourself) that your CYA is 30ppm, then you need to maintain a FC level that is NEVER below 2ppm ... so generally we would recommend raising it to 4-5ppm everyday so it does not drop below the minimum. Now since there may be "stuff" in the pool causing the foaming, you may want to maintain the FC a little higher, say 8-10ppm to help break it down. Still perfectly safe to swim at these levels if that is a concern.

How long you need to do this depends on how long it takes the foaming to stop.

Did you even mention how you have been chlorinating for the last 15 years? I am kind of surprised your CYA is as low as they claim unless you have not been using solid chlorine and/or have often replaced a lot of water.
 
Hello Jason, thankyou for the response . ...most of my pool is in the shade of very tall trees during the day in the summer, it is not like indoor but very little sun falls on the pool during the day . Yes , i've been using stingy sticks for the first 6 years before switching to tablets from Leslies, and shock it once a month. As for replacing water : I backwash the DE filter often and fill the pool afterwards to maintain proper level ... will this explain CYA being normal and not too high? Are you saying that it is safe to swim in the pool when FC is 10 ppm? Will raising CH reduce the foaming? I did an experiment today : I removed the blower while spa was running and covered the pipe to prevent from sucking air, and the foaming has almost but stopped due to air not coming from the 5 jets only from 3 others (faulty plumbing perhaps?) , as soon as I un-covered the pipe the air bubbles caused foaming to re-appear.

I will take water sample to another independent pool store rather than national chain and compare their test with Taylor kit that should arrive in a week or so.
 
It is safe to swim up to the FC level that is listed as "shock" or SLAM level in the chart I referenced. If your CYA were 80ppm, it would be safe to swim at a FC of 30ppm ... which would still be less active chlorine than in a public, non-stabilized pool.

I do not think you CH is low enough to be the cause of the foaming.

Only some backwashing does not seem like it would be enough to counter the CYA rise to exclusive use of tablets ... so I am not sure I believe the 30ppm number.
 

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Hello Jason, Dave et al.,

here are the numbers from two independednt pool stores:

1:

FAC 4.0
TAC 4.0
Water PH 7.6
TA 100
CYA 30
Calcium Hardness 260
TDS 1000
Coper/Iron 0
Phosphates 0

2:

FAC 5.0
TAC 5.0
Water PH 7.8
TA 120
CYA 20
Calcium Hardness 280
TDS 600
Phosphates 100

and here are with mine test kit:

Chlorine : 4.0
Water PH 7.4
TA 90
CYA 40

Do you think if after I just drop 1/3 of the pool water and refill it from my regular water supply the foaming may stop?

Thanks
 
Hello Jason,

for over a week now I've been maintaning the following levels:

Chlorine : 10-12
Water PH 7.2- 7.6
TA 100-120
CYA 40 -60

with no visible change in foaming.

Question : for my size pool 25K how much Clorox - how many gallons the stuff that they sell at Home DEpot or Wal mart - do I need to add to kill the stuff that cause foaming in my spa and pool?

Thank you in advance.
 
Have you considered buying your own test kit and taking control of your pool instead of using the pool store/s for testing that range so unpredictably?

Elevating your chlorine will, in time, disintegrate the algaecide and stop it from foaming. If you shock the pool to SLAM levels (you need an accurate CYA Level and your own test kit) you will speed the process.

Can we get a look see at your pool water?
 
The CYA is 40. Perhaps the shades of the color got me thinking that it might have been higher. Oh, well.

I did the Overnight chlorine loss test : the pool is not loosing any chlorine.

It was 10 ppm last night, and still 10 ppm this morning. Kinda high for me : in the past even when I shocked the pool I would not let it go beyond 5 . I alwyas tried to maintain it between 2-3 ppm.

But I super-chlorinate it based on your previous advice so it is what it is now.

I will try to drop 1/3 of the pool water/level next week, and will post my results then.

Thank you for all your help and advice.
 
As I suspected, sounds like you are using test strips which are absolutely worthless. Get yourself one of the recommended test kits if you want to take control. Like I said before, you FC is not high enough for the SLAM process.
 

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