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Thread: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

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    Water_man's Avatar
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    Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    LQ users have been talking about flow issues in a couple of threads. Some talked about removing the flow meter altogether because the “white stuff” in it blocks the flow.
    So here’s a question:
    Suppose your bather load and sunlight intensity don’t change and suppose you took steps to protect the bleach in the tank from UV exposure . Suppose you finally found that “sweet spot” on your flow control valve that gives you the desired FC feed into the pool.
    Does that mean that from now on, all you have to do is keep feeding the tank with bleach
    from time to time, and you’d keep a steady and almost unchanging supply of FC to your pool?

    I made initial tests to verify what the theory says, although more are needed and your input can verify what is expected.

    The level of FC at the top layer gets lower the lower the border between the yellow
    layer and the upper layer gets closer to the bottom. The reason is that FC travels to the top by diffusion. The farther it has to travel, less of it will get there.
    My own test results: At one point, when the border was high up the level of FC at the top was 231 ppm. When the yellow bleach bed was only about 2” deep, the level of top water FC was 98.
    This means that the water entering the pool become less enriched with FC as the level of the bleach bed goes down. Therefore, in order to keep the same feed rate, you need to either keep adjusting the flow, increasing it as you lose bleach, or keep the bleach level about the same all the time.

    What is you experience?
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    For me, the sweet spot moves around for there are just too many factors to lock it in. I have figured out the general area of the sweet spot tho. If you are trying to keep the LQ full, then you might be out there every day or two adding bleach. You would then have to trim the flow since the chlorine will be higher coming out of the LQ as you stated since it's full. For me, I rather add two jugs a week. I have been operating between FC 3-5ppm. The high side comes after I fill the LQ then it trends down until the next fill.

    The white stuff that collects is normally salt. I don't know what the stuff is that collects in the original tubing.

    I found that it's next to impossible to keep the exact amount of FC in the pool with the LQ. The LQ is still a manual method. It's job is to keep a flow of FC going into the pool and keeping me from adding bleach directly to the pool. For this, the LQ does a great job.

    You hit it on the head: "Therefore, in order to keep the same feed rate, you need to either keep adjusting the flow, increasing it as you lose bleach, or keep the bleach level about the same all the time."
    20k Gunite/Prism Blue-Pebblesheen, Pentair Tagelus TA-100D Sand Filter, Heliocol Solar Water Heater, 2 bubblers and 2 waterfalls installed 2007, 3hp IntelliFlo VS Pump 011018 installed 2013, Aquabot Turbo T4 RC and Stenner 45MHP10 w/The Liquidator container installed 2012.
    Antigua Spa by Artesian Spas: 325 gl, 52 jets, 6 hp 2 sp & 6 hp 1 sp, Circulation System 24 Hour Whisper Pure, Ozonator, LED digital lighting, The Artesian Pillowfall installed 2007.
    Retired: 2hp Pentair Whisperflow, Legend Platinum w/booster pump, PH Adjuster

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Bleach feed system on outdoor pools are fairly stable. All you really need to do is to adjust it so that near sunset on a sunny day when the bleach level in the liquidator is fairly low the FC level is still at or above the minimum for your CYA level. The FC level will be a bit high on sunny days when the liquidator is full of bleach, but that is not a serious problem.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Bleach feed system on outdoor pools are fairly stable. All you really need to do is to adjust it so that near sunset on a sunny day when the bleach level in the liquidator is fairly low the FC level is still at or above the minimum for your CYA level. The FC level will be a bit high on sunny days when the liquidator is full of bleach, but that is not a serious problem.
    I guess the main reason why people install the Liquidator is expecting to have an almost fully automated system of feeding FC to the pool with almost no additional work. Now I've realized that this was too much to ask for. Dealing with the LQ requires as much intervention as throwing into the pool a gallon of bleach a day, and sometimes even more. Using the LQ means substituting one chore by another.
    There's no free lunch here.
    Perhaps the main advantage of using the LQ is when the pool owner/operator is away from the pool for a few days. Still, too many things may go wrong (like that dreaded white stuff!) and supervision may be required.
    So all in all, it's still five minutes a day, and maybe a bit more.
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    I agree with you. With my pool............ manual addition of bleach to the pool daily might prove to be easier than problem solving the LQ.
    Dave
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    Our pool-
    20x40 Free Form Gunite (3'-8'), 26,000 G, AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generator SC-48, Aqua blue pebble sheen, Textured Sundek, Pentair Easy touch with remote control, 1hp Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump, Max-E- Therm heater 333k BTU, System 3 Mod Media Cartridge filter, and Polaris 380 cleaner with booster pump

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLSDO
    I agree with you. With my pool............ manual addition of bleach to the pool daily might prove to be easier than problem solving the LQ.
    Isn't it ironic that people who want to work on their pool less end up working more? I sympathize with your bad experience so far.
    If you haven't given up on "semi automation" perhaps you should check the Pool Pal here.
    It works by injecting bleach directly into the pump. I haven't found any more details or reviews other than what's on their web site.
    As for myself, the LQ has finally reached a steady state where the only thing left to do is occasional regulating the flow.
    However, the white stuff has started depositing on the lever of the outlet flow valve, and I'm bracing myself for the possibility of flow disruption as recently reported by duraleigh.
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLSDO
    I agree with you. With my pool............ manual addition of bleach to the pool daily might prove to be easier than problem solving the LQ.
    I'm starting to feel that you are correct.
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_man
    If you haven't given up on "semi automation" perhaps you should check the Pool Pal here.
    It works by injecting bleach directly into the pump. I haven't found any more details or reviews other than what's on their web site.
    Looks interesting. It appears to suction out chlorine directly. I wonder how the control function works?
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by revstriker
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_man
    If you haven't given up on "semi automation" perhaps you should check the Pool Pal here.
    It works by injecting bleach directly into the pump. I haven't found any more details or reviews other than what's on their web site.
    Looks interesting. It appears to suction out chlorine directly. I wonder how the control function works?

    Looks like you just pick one of the 4 posts that have different sized orifices.

    Interesting. I plan to email them to see if they'll email me the owners manual, which hopefully will have a lot more info.

    If this is the case, I don't see where just hooking up tubing with a plug on the end that you drop into your bottle that is drilled with a very small hole. In a past life working for a sanitation chemical company, I used to sell hand foamers that were essentially the same concept, with different sized orifices that you plugged into the pick up hose to control how much chemical was picked up.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    In my limited experience I like having the LQ. While I could add bleach manually nightly, it is nice to just fill up the LQ every 7-10 days and test the water every 3 or 4 days and not worry too much about it. Agreed it doesn't take too long to pour a jug or two in the pool, but with two young kids time is precious so the minimal financial investment in the LQ is worth it.
    Pool Details:
    - inground vinyl liner, approx 35,000 gal; Hayward DE-6000; Pentair VS3050
    - 600sq ft Heliocol; Blue Diamond; 8 Gal Liquidator
    - TF-100

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Forgot to update. I emailed them, they said they don't know, they're just the wholesaler and I needed to contact the manufacturer. I replied asking for that contact info, and they never replied back

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    I read all of these LQ posts and I believe that many of you aren't really trying to simplify your pool maintenance, your just gadget freaks. Not that there's anything wrong with that! Having not experienced the WS, I cannot testify to the amount of work that you need to go through to keep the LQ running if you experience it, but excluding the WS, it really is fairly basic. Stagger your pump run times throughout the day and night so you get consistent coverage. Once you get the LQ running and and have tinkered with it and the various flow rates for a few weeks, set the flow so that when the LQ is full, the FC in your pool is on the very top end of the acceptable range for your CYA level. Then as the bleach is being used up, the FC in your pool will slowly drop to the lower end of acceptable. When that happens, top up the LQ. If you experience heavy usages or a lot of rain or add water, hit the pool with a cup or two of bleach (or whatever a quick shock amount on your pool is). I have been doing this for two years without any adjustments.
    6000 gal inground fiberglass
    1.5hp pump / sand filter
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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    That is me for sure!

    I have run out of things to tweak or test for the time being with my equipment pad. I am turning into a regular pool owner. Everyday I will spend 15 minutes or less walking the pool, checking the equipment, skimmer cleaning and testing the water. It is actually a bit boring, I need a new gadget to play with! <Need to get a part time job and save up for a controller which I can rig to work with my LQ & pH Adjuster...>

    My LQ is on cruise control for the most part.
    20k Gunite/Prism Blue-Pebblesheen, Pentair Tagelus TA-100D Sand Filter, Heliocol Solar Water Heater, 2 bubblers and 2 waterfalls installed 2007, 3hp IntelliFlo VS Pump 011018 installed 2013, Aquabot Turbo T4 RC and Stenner 45MHP10 w/The Liquidator container installed 2012.
    Antigua Spa by Artesian Spas: 325 gl, 52 jets, 6 hp 2 sp & 6 hp 1 sp, Circulation System 24 Hour Whisper Pure, Ozonator, LED digital lighting, The Artesian Pillowfall installed 2007.
    Retired: 2hp Pentair Whisperflow, Legend Platinum w/booster pump, PH Adjuster

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by keithw
    I read all of these LQ posts and I believe that many of you aren't really trying to simplify your pool maintenance, your just gadget freaks.
    For me, this is exactly right. Even though I am a bit of a gadget freak, my main objective for purchasing a LQ was to simplify the maintenance. However, the LQ just made maintenance harder and more time consuming. Constantly tweaking the LQ to find the "perfect" setting, adjusting for weather, and bather load, and then dealing with the white stuff to the point where I was not comfortable trusting the LQ as it was causing my pump to lose prime. So I ended up simplifying my maintenance by taking the LQ out and going back to daily checks, and adding bleach manually as needed.

    I'm still very interested in the LQ, and am happy to see others have success with it.
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by revstriker
    Quote Originally Posted by keithw
    I read all of these LQ posts and I believe that many of you aren't really trying to simplify your pool maintenance, your just gadget freaks.
    For me, this is exactly right. Even though I am a bit of a gadget freak, my main objective for purchasing a LQ was to simplify the maintenance. However, the LQ just made maintenance harder and more time consuming. Constantly tweaking the LQ to find the "perfect" setting, adjusting for weather, and bather load, and then dealing with the white stuff to the point where I was not comfortable trusting the LQ as it was causing my pump to lose prime. So I ended up simplifying my maintenance by taking the LQ out and going back to daily checks, and adding bleach manually as needed.

    I'm still very interested in the LQ, and am happy to see others have success with it.
    It has taken a lot of time "working out the bugs". I have not removed it yet though. Time will tell.
    Dave
    -------
    Our pool-
    20x40 Free Form Gunite (3'-8'), 26,000 G, AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generator SC-48, Aqua blue pebble sheen, Textured Sundek, Pentair Easy touch with remote control, 1hp Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump, Max-E- Therm heater 333k BTU, System 3 Mod Media Cartridge filter, and Polaris 380 cleaner with booster pump

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    I cut the below out of the LQ Manual. I believe if you keep your water chemistry in the lower ranges, you will reduce the "WS":

    THE LIQUIDATOR® START UP PROCEDURE:

    BEFORE OPERATING THE LIQUIDATOR® THE POOL WATER MUST BE BALANCED:
    pH 7.2 to 7.6
    Alkalinity 80 to 100 ppm
    Stabilizer (also referred to as conditioner or cyanuric acid) 60 to 80 ppm maximum

    PERIODIC MAINTENANCE OF THE LIQUIDATOR

    In areas with hard water, calcium scale may periodically build up on the float assemblies,
    particularly the “OUT” float. This could cause the float valves to not close off properly. It is
    important that you keep the pool pH in the lower end of the normal range (i.e., towards 7.2)
    as well as keeping the alkalinity below 100 ppm to help prevent scaling in the unit. Should
    this buildup occur, remove the floats from the tank and clean them in a diluted solution of
    muriatic acid. Observe all warning information associated with the acid. Use of plastic gloves
    and eye protection is recommended. Mix one part acid to five parts water in a plastic bucket
    (always adding acid to water, not water to acid...) and let the floats soak in this solution for
    approximately five minutes. While cleaning the float valves, check the flow adjustment
    valve, the flow indicator, and the check valve for possible scale buildup. They may be soaked
    in the dilute acid solution with the float valves if necessary.
    Solids that accumulate in the bottom of THE LIQUIDATOR® do not affect the performance
    of the unit. They should be cleaned out and disposed of every four to six months as a regular
    maintenance procedure. Periodic cleaning with a mild acid solution is all that is required to
    keep your unit functioning.
    20k Gunite/Prism Blue-Pebblesheen, Pentair Tagelus TA-100D Sand Filter, Heliocol Solar Water Heater, 2 bubblers and 2 waterfalls installed 2007, 3hp IntelliFlo VS Pump 011018 installed 2013, Aquabot Turbo T4 RC and Stenner 45MHP10 w/The Liquidator container installed 2012.
    Antigua Spa by Artesian Spas: 325 gl, 52 jets, 6 hp 2 sp & 6 hp 1 sp, Circulation System 24 Hour Whisper Pure, Ozonator, LED digital lighting, The Artesian Pillowfall installed 2007.
    Retired: 2hp Pentair Whisperflow, Legend Platinum w/booster pump, PH Adjuster

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    I wish that were true. Here are my numbers. pH 7.2, Alk 80, and CYA 40. Its been a week since I acid washed the unit and its coated again. Oh well.
    Dave
    -------
    Our pool-
    20x40 Free Form Gunite (3'-8'), 26,000 G, AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generator SC-48, Aqua blue pebble sheen, Textured Sundek, Pentair Easy touch with remote control, 1hp Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump, Max-E- Therm heater 333k BTU, System 3 Mod Media Cartridge filter, and Polaris 380 cleaner with booster pump

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    Water_man's Avatar
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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLSDO
    I wish that were true. Here are my numbers. pH 7.2, Alk 80, and CYA 40. Its been a week since I acid washed the unit and its coated again. Oh well.
    What's your CH and bleach %?
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Does the Liquidator’s flow need to be regulated regularly?

    12% chlorine and CH= 250
    Dave
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    Our pool-
    20x40 Free Form Gunite (3'-8'), 26,000 G, AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generator SC-48, Aqua blue pebble sheen, Textured Sundek, Pentair Easy touch with remote control, 1hp Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump, Max-E- Therm heater 333k BTU, System 3 Mod Media Cartridge filter, and Polaris 380 cleaner with booster pump

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