Replace Motor or Entire Pump?

[harcosk]

Hi Folks,

Thanks to all the contributors who have made this site a treasure trove of knowledge. It certainly didn't happen overnight, so thanks!!

Like many, I have bought a house that came with a pool. I am just learning and applying some experience with spas.

Also, like others, I am (currently) primarily concerned with my pool pump operating cost. In San Diego, we are paying $0.35/kWhr at the top tier rate.

Pool Summary:
19.6K gal, plaster, 2 HP A.O. Smith SQ1202 pump, 325 sqft cartridge filter
Needs to be replastered
Needs skimmer to be repair to fix leaking under decking which has led to shift/cracking of decking
Needs refurbished coping
Needs repairs to vacuum (Hayward NaviGator) including fins, shoes, wings... or just a replacement

Wants:
SWG, new decking, etc

In-ground pool with attached spa:


Controller (COMPOOL CP3000 inside house):


Hayward NaviGator Vacuum:


Equipment area (controller box, pump, heater, filter, valve actuators):


Filter and Heater:


Electrical Controller (Lx3000) which is 240VAC:


Motor label:


The daily routine is to run the pump from 0800 to 1300. That balances out to about $75 per month.

So the question is, do I try to find a replacement pump motor (48Y flange) for a few $100 or do I make a large investment in a multi / variable speed pump. We are blessed to have some cash to make the investment, if necessary.

As for the pump size in HP, we just have the spa (3 jets) and the vacuum with no other features. Certainly open to right-sizing the motor.

The qualified list of pumps for rebates from my electricity service provider is http://www.sdge.com/rebates-finder/pool-pump-and-motor-rebates.

Regards and thanks,
Kyle

 

[Bama Rambler]

Can you tell what brand and model the pump you have now is? You just listed the motor model number and several mfgs use the same motors.

Since you have a spa I'd probably stick to at least that size motor. Also, since your electric rates are as high as they are for you, I'd go with one of the variable speed pumps.

 

[pragmatic]

Regarding the Hayward Navigator Cleaner-Replacement parts are cheap (on-line) and very easy to install. You could replace it with a better performing suction model ($300-$500) or go with a robot (+/-$900-$1100) and then deal with electrical cords stretched across your deck. For cost and simplicity, I'd stick with it. If you have any problems with it, let me know-I'm an expert (don't ask why) I can't help with the other issues.

 

[jblizzle]

The cheapest upfront option that will still save you around 50% in electricity or so, would be to replace just the motor with a 2-speed motor of the same size. Running on low speed uses 1/4 the power as on high speed while moving half the water. So run on low most of the time and run on high short periods for the cleaner or when using the spa.

In the long run, getting a new VS pump (larger models like the Intelliflo or Ecostar), might save you more money. It will cost likely at least double ($800) initially (minus any rebate), but then will save a little more than the 2-speed due to the ability to run at even lower RPMs and potentially dialing down the higher speed to the minimum that the cleaner needs.

 

[harcosk]

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the Hayward Navigator Cleaner-Replacement parts are cheap (on-line) and very easy to install. You could replace it with a better performing suction model ($300-$500) or go with a robot (+/-$900-$1100) and then deal with electrical cords stretched across your deck. For cost and simplicity, I'd stick with it. If you have any problems with it, let me know-I'm an expert (don't ask why) I can't help with the other issues.

I have read that replacing parts for the vacuum is straightforward. Thanks for the rough estimates on the cost of different options for cleaning equipment. If I have any trouble with replacement parts, I'll be sure to get a hold of you.

Can you tell what brand and model the pump you have now is? You just listed the motor model number and several mfgs use the same motors.
Since you have a spa I'd probably stick to at least that size motor. Also, since your electric rates are as high as they are for you, I'd go with one of the variable speed pumps.

The pump doesn't appear to have any useful placards or nameplates on it.




So maybe that's a hint that the entire pump needs to be replaced? ;-) I was also wondering about the HP. The recommendation seems to be to stick with 2HP for the spa. Great!

The cheapest upfront option that will still save you around 50% in electricity or so, would be to replace just the motor with a 2-speed motor of the same size. Running on low speed uses 1/4 the power as on high speed while moving half the water. So run on low most of the time and run on high short periods for the cleaner or when using the spa.

In the long run, getting a new VS pump (larger models like the Intelliflo or Ecostar), might save you more money. It will cost likely at least double ($800) initially (minus any rebate), but then will save a little more than the 2-speed due to the ability to run at even lower RPMs and potentially dialing down the higher speed to the minimum that the cleaner needs.

For now, I'll research the VS pumps and run some numbers on the "expected" savings in motor efficiency.

Is the ComPool CP3000 helping or hurting when considering going to a VS or a two speed pump? Any other controller upgrades that need to be considered?

 

[jblizzle]

Warning, be leery of the cost comparisons that are on the manufacturers sites. They are overly optimistic and skewed toward the VS pumps.

I am not familiar with the ComPool CP3000, likely it would have no problem controlling a 2-speed pump (if there is a 2nd free relay), but it may not integrate with a VS pump without some added module.

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, harcosk

linen edit: see following posts by bobo and linen.[s:c14bl5z9]That looks like a pentair challenger pump. The motor is a 2 hp full-rated, so if you wanted to just replace the motor with a 2-speed as mentioned above, the a.o. smith b2984 should work, but it is not cheap at ~$400 online.[/s:c14bl5z9] At that price I would probably look into how much the rebate is in your area for getting a new vs pump.

 

[bobodaclown]

Hello,
I'd recommend a 2-speed motor. I think your pump is a Dura Glas. Here's a link for the owners manual:
http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/DuraGlasOM.pdf

You can loosen the big metal clamp and slide the back 1/2 off. Doesn't affect the plumbing and you'll be able to see the numbers on the impeller and diffuser (good info to know).

 

[linen]

I think bobo is right on it being a duraglas not a challenger as I mentioned above. If it is a duraglas, then the motor above might not fit it since it is a 58y and not a 48y frame (not sure if it wont fit since some motor bases have a removable spacer that will work with either...the only difference is the 56y motor is 1/2" larger in diameter compared to the 48y ). A 48y frame, 2-speed version would be the a.o. smith SQS1202R. I would follow bobos advice and take a look at the impeller/diffuser numbers.

 

[harcosk]

An update on the thread: I decided to go with the Pentair Intelliflo (011018) pump based on an acquaintance who is "in the business". Picked up the pump, Easy Touch 8 load center-single body, and Indoor Control Panel from the web (good experience with this particular vendor). We have the old pump out of the way and will be doing the plumbing/pump upgrade tomorrow. We'll let that go for the weekend and work on the electrical upgrade over the next couple of weeks.

Next up will be to get the runtimes and speeds down. I have downloaded the sheet from mas985 as a starting point.

I also purchased a bunch of replacement parts for the NaviGator (wings, front/back flaps, pods and shoes). It works great!! No more right-turn only action and it really zips around the pool. It was pretty easy to do and took about 30 minutes.

Thanks to all those who responded!