Replacing pool pump questions....

[jbelliveau]

Heya folks currently I have a heywood 1.5 hp pump going to a heywood de filter.

I am looking at a replacement with a high efficiency 2 speed unit.

I was considering a whisper flo 1.5 hp 2 speed pump, but I noticed it says 230 v, does this run on 115 also ? or is it just 230 ?

Any other good high efficiency pumps I should be looking at ? I can probably get another season out of this one, but I prefer to get rid of it before it completely fails. Not to mention its costing 70 a month to run. Would like to replace it asap.

Thanks In Advance.

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Can you be more specific as to what your existing pump is?
Most 2-speed motors are only 230V ... although there are some smaller ones that are 115V.

Do you have a spa or water features that require such a large pump?

 

[jbelliveau]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Can you be more specific as to what you existing pump is?
Most 2-speed motors are only 230V ... although there are some smaller ones that are 115V.

Do you have a spa or water features that require such a large pump?

It's currently a heywood super series pump. pool is 21 K gallons. No spa or water features, nothing extra just 2 outlet jets.

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, jbelliveau

Can you post the model number of you pump, or if you do not know that, pictures of the any pump and motor labels?

Most likely, with what you have told us, you can get by with a small 2-speed pump. The whisperflo is likely overkill. It my be most cost effective/easiest to just replace you current pumps motor with an appropriate 2-speed version.

 

[jblizzle]

Hayward (not heywood) and Pentair have multiple lines of pumps, which are not the same even if they have the same HP. The Hayward Super Pumps are similar to the Pentair Superflos ... the Hayward Super II Pumps and the Pentair Whisperflos are larger than the previous 2.

So the Whisperflo is certainly overkill ... in fact the 1.5HP you currently have is likely overkill.

Is the pump itself in good shape where you will only need a motor? With more details, we may be able to find a small 115V 2-speed motor that would work for you (although you may also need a smaller impeller as well, but they are around $25).

 

[jbelliveau]

Looks like I miss spoke, it seems to be 1 hp.

Label reads as such.

Hayward Centurion Pool and SPA Duty
1 hp 115/230 v 6/12 amps
part 8-168098-21

Has some other stuff on it about continuous time and such.

 

[linen]

In fact that is a pretty small pump and other than lacking a low speed, it is well sized to your pool. Do you know if it is wired for 115 volts or 230 volts?

 

[jbelliveau]

In fact that is a pretty small pump and other than lacking a low speed, it is well sized to your pool. Do you know if it is wired for 115 volts or 230 volts?

It is 115 right now with a gfi no timer just a switch. anything under 60 degrees outside and it squeals like a pig, and uses 60 to 80 a month depending on it i need an 8 hour run or a 4 to 6

 

[Divin Dave]

In fact that is a pretty small pump and other than lacking a low speed, it is well sized to your pool. Do you know if it is wired for 115 volts or 230 volts?

It is 115 right now with a gfi no timer just a switch. anything under 60 degrees outside and it squeals like a pig, and uses 60 to 80 a month depending on it i need an 8 hour run or a 4 to 6

Just as a fyi for the future, if you will notice the voltage and amps on the motor tag.
V 230/115
A 6/12

What that means is that wired a 230, the current draw is 6 amps
at 115v it will draw 12 amps.

amperage = current draw = consumption of electricity. So a 230 v motor will not tack on as much to your light bill as a 115v motor will. 230 also considered safer since its the amps that get you good if you stick your finger in the wrong place.

If you have the space in your breaker box, stick in a 2 pol breaker and wire the new motor up to 230. You will recover the extra cost of the breaker in no time and your wallet will thank you for it. I can envision with a 2 speed motor at 230v, your light bill dropping to 1/3, if not more, of what it is now.

 

[jbelliveau]

In fact that is a pretty small pump and other than lacking a low speed, it is well sized to your pool. Do you know if it is wired for 115 volts or 230 volts?

It is 115 right now with a gfi no timer just a switch. anything under 60 degrees outside and it squeals like a pig, and uses 60 to 80 a month depending on it i need an 8 hour run or a 4 to 6

Just as a fyi for the future, if you will notice the voltage and amps on the motor tag.
V 230/115
A 6/12

What that means is that wired a 230, the current draw is 6 amps
at 115v it will draw 12 amps.

amperage = current draw = consumption of electricity. So a 230 v motor will not tack on as much to your light bill as a 115v motor will. 230 also considered safer since its the amps that get you good if you stick your finger in the wrong place.

If you have the space in your breaker box, stick in a 2 pol breaker and wire the new motor up to 230. You will recover the extra cost of the breaker in no time and your wallet will thank you for it. I can envision with a 2 speed motor at 230v, your light bill dropping to 1/3, if not more, of what it is now.

Also doesn't the wire going out there have to be changed as well ?

 

[jblizzle]

It depends on how it is currently wired. For 230V you need 2 hot wires and a ground if it goes directly to the motor and that is all that is on the circuit. I think some people re-purpose the white neutral wire for the second hot leg ... although I am not 100% sure that is acceptable as far as codes go.

 

[qbantek]

Sorry, that is not correct.
Unfortunately we do not pay for how many Amperes our equipment consumes at whatever voltage, but for a combination of both.
We pay for Power/Time (expressed in watts/h or more common Kw/h).

Lets assume for a minute that your motor runs on DC (it does not, it runs on AC, but then the calculation will be slightly more complicated and the final result is very similar).
Then we have:

Power (Watts) = Voltaje (Volts) * Amperes (A)

for this motor:

230 v * 6 A = 1380 watts ~ 1.4kw
115 v * 12 A = 1380 watts ~ 1.4kw

If you run both motors for 1 hour they will both draw 1.4kw/h => same $$ (multiply by your local prices to get the actual figure in dollars)

There are some other aspects to consider, and yes, you usually would prefer to have a 230V connection for a motor of this size but please do not expect to pay half the $ by going from 115V to 230V.

In fact that is a pretty small pump and other than lacking a low speed, it is well sized to your pool. Do you know if it is wired for 115 volts or 230 volts?

It is 115 right now with a gfi no timer just a switch. anything under 60 degrees outside and it squeals like a pig, and uses 60 to 80 a month depending on it i need an 8 hour run or a 4 to 6

Just as a fyi for the future, if you will notice the voltage and amps on the motor tag.
V 230/115
A 6/12

What that means is that wired a 230, the current draw is 6 amps
at 115v it will draw 12 amps.

amperage = current draw = consumption of electricity. So a 230 v motor will not tack on as much to your light bill as a 115v motor will. 230 also considered safer since its the amps that get you good if you stick your finger in the wrong place.

If you have the space in your breaker box, stick in a 2 pol breaker and wire the new motor up to 230. You will recover the extra cost of the breaker in no time and your wallet will thank you for it. I can envision with a 2 speed motor at 230v, your light bill dropping to 1/3, if not more, of what it is now.

 

[jblizzle]

Sorry, that is not correct.
Unfortunately we do not pay for how many Amperes our equipment consumes at whatever voltage, but for a combination of both.
We pay for Power/Time (expressed in watts/h or more common Kw/h).

Lets assume for a minute that your motor runs on DC (it does not, it runs on AC, but then the calculation will be slightly more complicated and the final result is very similar).
Then we have:

Power (Watts) = Voltaje (Volts) * Amperes (A)

for this motor:

230 v * 6 A = 1380 watts ~ 1.4kw
115 v * 12 A = 1380 watts ~ 1.4kw

If you run both motors for 1 hour they will both draw 1.4kw/h => same $$ (multiply by your local prices to get the actual figure in dollars)

There are some other aspects to consider, and yes, you usually would prefer to have a 230V connection for a motor of this size but please do not expect to pay half the $ by going from 115V to 230V.

This is correct. You will use the same amount of power either way. The advantage of a 230V motor is that you can run a smaller wire to the motor because the amps are lower.

 

[qbantek]

Sorry Dave, I promise I am not picking on you, but this is also incorrect.
Yes, is the amps that cause the trouble if you happen to touch the wrong cable, but not the amps drawn by the motor, the amps running through your body!

If you touch an energized conductor, the current running through your body will be

I = V /R (Resistance of your body in ohms)
= 230V / [?] ohms
= 115V / [?] ohms

Current flowing through your body will be 2x as much if you touch 230V! Please don't try this at home, its safer to do the math

230 also considered safer since its the amps that get you good if you stick your finger in the wrong place.

 

[mas985]

That's only true if you touch both 230v leads at exactly the same time. Both 115v and 230v have the same potential (115v) to ground and neutral. 230v is only 230v between the two hot leads. In most cases, you will only touch one of the two leads and then it is the same voltage to ground (115v) through your body. However, if you do touch both leads with one hand, it is much less dangerous because the current will flow between the fingers instead of the entire body. Although it will still smart some. If you grab a lead in each hand, only then is it more dangerous than 115v.

 

[qbantek]

That's only true if you touch both 230v leads at exactly the same time. Both 115v and 230v have the same potential (115v) to ground and neutral. 230v is only 230v between the two hot leads. In most cases, you will only touch one of the two leads and then it is the same voltage to ground (115v) through your body. However, if you do touch both leads with one hand, it is much less dangerous because the current will flow between the fingers instead of the entire body. Although it will still smart some. If you grab a lead in each hand, only then is it more dangerous than 115v.

Now this is totally correct.
I didn't wanted to go in detail about neutral, ground, etc. Just clarifying the fact that 230v is not automatically 'safer' than 115v. If anything and without following proper procedures, it can cause as much or more harm.
I had received my own share of unintentional miss-information in the past, so I felt compelled to cut this one clear.

thanks!

 

[jbelliveau]

Awesome quick info on electrical I can fix any circuit in a car or a computer, don't ask me about house wiring, although I been told they are close. I don't like anything over 12 volts hehe.

So my new question, am I safe in assuming it's better to replace the motor in the pump and impeller, with a 2 speed and a timer ? rather then replace the whole pump ? And I should be ok leaving it at 115 v ? Instead of needing to go to 230 v.

If Not I will probably leave this guy alone until I get my pool heater/central ac setup in place and just move all the piping closer to my house. Im probably going to end up having to redo all the stone work around the pool anyway soon.

 

[jblizzle]

It is cheaper to replace just the motor, not necessarily better ... Although then you do not have to do any plumbing.

It remains to be seen if there is a 115v 2 speed motor that will work.

You do not really need a timer if you just want to manually select the speed.

 

[jbelliveau]

So I am off to do more learning, not caring about costs to much, as long as it pays off in the long run of 3+ years.

Im looking to keep all my bills lower, which is why im also going to finish off my chemicals and go with the tf100 tester and the bbb method.

Any pointers on picking a motor to sit in this guy ?