Pentair, Zodiac and Hayward change warranties for online purchases. Dec 13, 2013 issue of Pool & Spa News.
Big three warranty changes
- Thread starter swimcmp
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This has been a long time coming. The number of calls from the DIY people when something isn't working is starting to wear on the manufacturers. Plus this way the manufacturer knows the units "should" have been installed right. I say "should" because there are still unlicensed installers out there installing equipment with out the proper license and training. I know this doesn't help the DYI folks but it's for theirs and the manufacturers safety.
Here is the article. http://www.poolspanews.com/retailing/bi ... ies_o.aspx
Here is the article. http://www.poolspanews.com/retailing/bi ... ies_o.aspx
As an avid DIY'er, I really have no problem with this change.
If you are GOOD at self install, then the decreased warranty shouldn't harm you in any way.
If you do things wrong (wiring, etc), too many people try to make the manufacturer take the heat and cover for their mistakes.
If you are GOOD at self install, then the decreased warranty shouldn't harm you in any way.
If you do things wrong (wiring, etc), too many people try to make the manufacturer take the heat and cover for their mistakes.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,815
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Or perhaps this could open the door for another manufacture that chooses to cater to the DIYer.
Most manufactures I work with are going this route. All they are trying to do is limit their cash out of their pocket and also liability. But think about this, you purchase new equipment and install it yourself and 10 months in there is a failure that will cost you $850 to repair. Now you are already past your warranty. You aren't going to be happy. Especially when you could have had a 12 month or longer warranty if you had it installed by a licensed professional.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,815
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Most significant manufacturing defects would probably show up within the 60 day window so that part is fine. But I am having a hard time envisioning what a DIYer could possibly screw up during an install that would cause the pump to fail between the 60 day and 1 year window.
Didn't I see that this applies to filters too???
Is it even possible to install a filter incorrectly in such a way that it can be damaged? Worst case would be reversing the inlet and outlet ... I suppose that could ruin a cartridge or fill a DE grid with DE (although someone could to the 2nd by recharging in backwash mode too).
Is it even possible to install a filter incorrectly in such a way that it can be damaged? Worst case would be reversing the inlet and outlet ... I suppose that could ruin a cartridge or fill a DE grid with DE (although someone could to the 2nd by recharging in backwash mode too).
mas985 said:
You're missing the bigger picture here. This is not about defects. This is about losing your warranty for the product. A warranty that should have been a 2 year one on some products.
Remember, this is just one way that manufacturer can limit their exposer to having to pay for things. This will apply to ALL of their equipment.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,815
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I don't think this has anything to do with limiting exposure for the manufacture. I think they were getting pressure from the installers to help persuade the DIYers to go with a professional.
My main point was that like most things, if it doesn't fail right away, it will probably last at least a year so I doubt there are many failures for either the DIYer or the professional that fall within the 60 day to 1 year window.
IMHO, I don't think this changes the risk for the DIYer or the manufacture at all, just the perception of risk.
My main point was that like most things, if it doesn't fail right away, it will probably last at least a year so I doubt there are many failures for either the DIYer or the professional that fall within the 60 day to 1 year window.
IMHO, I don't think this changes the risk for the DIYer or the manufacture at all, just the perception of risk.
Read the article. It isn't about the manufacturers trying to exclude the diy, they are trying to simply avoid standing behind a faulty install by someone who shouldn't be doing it to begin with. We all know at least one of these types. The diyer who tackles something that shouldn't be done diy. Pentair has had to warranty Intelliflo pump drive that due to a diyer who has no electrical knowledge has ruined. Hayward has had these issues also. I was hoping that this would spark the discussion that you all were having. I think it is an excellent idea. I would be more in favor of the zero warranty for internet/diy install. I use to have a customer that worked for the Missouri Economic Development arm of state gov't and he wouldn't buy it from me because he could get it online cheaper and no sales tax.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,815
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Of course, you think it is a good idea. Your business benefits from it. And of course the article favors that too because it is an industry rag. However, it doesn't mean there isn't other motivation.
To me it is like saying if it comes from the Government it must a good idea.
But if it is just about wiring the drive incorrectly, wouldn't that show up in the first 60 days anyway or more accurately, at the time of install. So what has changed?
To me it is like saying if it comes from the Government it must a good idea.
But if it is just about wiring the drive incorrectly, wouldn't that show up in the first 60 days anyway or more accurately, at the time of install. So what has changed?
I don't think it has anything to do with the companies trying to help out the professionals. They do not benefit from the professional doing the install and it's not like we are in some huge union group pressuring them to help us out. It has to be about limiting their exposure and or risk if a homeowner installs something wrong. What they could just do is say it has a 90 day warranty and that is that and do away with these long warranties all together.
I'm sure some DIY person has replaced a pump and hooked up a 240 line to the 120 side. When the person hurts themselves they can sue the company using something like "it wasn't marked correctly" or something like that.
Don't get me wrong, I myself am a DIY person. I just gutted and remodeled a bathroom by myself. That was a huge job but I have always been that type of person.
I'm sure some DIY person has replaced a pump and hooked up a 240 line to the 120 side. When the person hurts themselves they can sue the company using something like "it wasn't marked correctly" or something like that.
Don't get me wrong, I myself am a DIY person. I just gutted and remodeled a bathroom by myself. That was a huge job but I have always been that type of person.
ouachita said:
Nothing wrong with a person making a living. We all have to live right?
I know this is sort of off topic.
One other thing to consider also is this, have you checked into your homeowners insurance to see if it covers you doing work on your house? Don't you think your insurance company could claim, "well you didn't know what you were doing so we will not cover the claim." It has happened. Where as with a licensed person, if something bad happens, it falls under their insurance. Well that is if you hired a real licensed and insured person.
One other thing to consider also is this, have you checked into your homeowners insurance to see if it covers you doing work on your house? Don't you think your insurance company could claim, "well you didn't know what you were doing so we will not cover the claim." It has happened. Where as with a licensed person, if something bad happens, it falls under their insurance. Well that is if you hired a real licensed and insured person.
ps0303 you are exactly right they are limiting exposure. But they are also eliminating diy installs that are done incorrectly. That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Yes it does benefit me. But it also hurts me. What happens when the internet drives alot of locally owned businesses out and your local government has to raise taxes since they aren't collecting sales taxes. It effects more than just the professional installer. It is a shame you think every pool builder/installer is just a con artist. Not all of us are bad people. We are just trying to compete in an unfair market, and I am glad that at least three of the equipment companies are starting to stand up and support the local tradesman that is trying to support his family and community.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,815
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Doesn't that apply to cutting the grass, doing the laundry, cleaning the house. If you were not properly "trained" then you shouldn't be doing any of that either. Where is the line drawn? I am sure both of you go outside your areas of expertise too but you feel confident that you can do the job and I am sure you are.
Also, if you get permits and it passes inspection, then the insurance company has to pay the claim. But I already checked with my insurance company and they don't care who installs it and they don't care if there is a permit. They will pay the claim.
Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the manufactures regarding this but it seems to me that they are just removing the 60 day to 1 year window of time, when in fact, there is very little probability of anything going wrong during that window. If the DIYer screws up the install, it will most likely show up within the 60 days and they will still be covered.
I understand the liability issue but that still exists with or without this new warranty so that hasn't changed anything really.
Also, if you get permits and it passes inspection, then the insurance company has to pay the claim. But I already checked with my insurance company and they don't care who installs it and they don't care if there is a permit. They will pay the claim.
Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the manufactures regarding this but it seems to me that they are just removing the 60 day to 1 year window of time, when in fact, there is very little probability of anything going wrong during that window. If the DIYer screws up the install, it will most likely show up within the 60 days and they will still be covered.
I understand the liability issue but that still exists with or without this new warranty so that hasn't changed anything really.
My problem here is trying to visualize what sort of installation mistakes that would tend to fail in this time window. It seems to me most incorrect installation caused failures are going to show up right away (either instantly or within the first few weeks of operation) regardless of who the installer is. Things that fail after the first few months and less than a few years down the road tend to be things that fail due to quality control problems, etc.
Paul,
What is a "certified professional"? Here in Texas pool builders do not have any licensing requirements. Does one have to take a class from each manufacturer?
What is a "certified professional"? Here in Texas pool builders do not have any licensing requirements. Does one have to take a class from each manufacturer?
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