Complete Equipment Rebuild

[PhxSun]

I have a poolpump that is old, super loud and sucking tons of air from somewhere. I have been planning on replacing it for a while but now, from what I gathered, the air leak on the suction side has become so bad that the filter pushes all the dirty water back into the pool (actually spa) once the pump shuts off (I did the valve test and tons of air is hissing for quite a while until water starts coming out).
On top of that now the filter started leaking too despite a new o-ring (Is it possible to overtighten it? I feel like it has gotten worse since the last cleaning).

From what I have learned reading around the forum here both my pump and the filter are in theory undersized for my pool am I right? I have never really had any problems with the clarity of the water/algae even though I am rarely ever testing the water (bringing it to my pool store like 4 times out of the year) and just add the chemicals by 'feel'. Like I said it has worked great but now that my wife is expecting (any day) I wanna be better about it to have my daughter be exposed to the lowest level of chemicals possible

What I would like to know is as follows:
1) what pump would you recommend? (Here is a list of all the ones I would get rebates on http://www.srpnet.com/energy/powerwise/ ... dPumps.pdf)
2) am I good to go with the filter or should I get a new one, if so, which one? (I would like to stay with a DE since I have changed the system to Fiberclear and absolutely love how clean the water looks at that fine filtration)
3) I wanna completely repipe everything, what fittings should I use and why (solid pipe to the pump/filter, or threaded connections etc)? Also should I put new valves in since I am at it or re-use the old ones and replace them later if needed? What pressure rating do the pipes need to have?
edit: the valves for the aerator and slide are letting water through too, what valves are best for that?

I was looking at the Hayward SP3400VSP EcoStar VS, is that overkill? I doubt we will ever do it but the pump should be strong enough for a heater or solar heating system on the roof.
For new valves I was looking at the Jandy 2 to 2-1/2-Inch Positive Seal NeverLube Valve. Are there better ones?


I hope this post is not overwhelmingly confusing but I am obviously new to the whole thing and there are just so many questions
Thank you so much in advance!

Edit: Energy rates are:
May-June: 10.44 (first 700kWh), 11.12 (701-2000kWh), 12.18 (2000+kWh)
July-August: 11.04, 11.65, 12.70
November-April: 8.03

 

[duraleigh]

Your post is too wide-ranging to correctly address your questions and many are answered by "it depends" so let's take the most important issues first.....pump and filter.

Your pump is not really undersized but with that suction side leak you have, you are probably not getting nearly the efficiency it can produce. If you are committed to a new pump regardless, you can solve that leak when you install it. However, if you would like to keep the old one, (and have it run much quieter) your first goal should be to fix that leak. Let us know whether the replacement is a definite.

Pretty much the same advice with the filter. It'll work but you have to fix that O-ring leak. If you are committed to a new filter or would like to get your existing one performing better, let us know and we'll be able to help you much better

 

[PhxSun]

Ok the pump is a definitive. It is right by our living room couch and really bothersome thus a quieter one and obviously energy savings would be nice too since the bills here in AZ can get pretty high in the hotter months...

The filter only if the consensus is that it would be better to do it now since I want to rebuild the piping anyways. Performance wise (if not leaking) I think it is fine, I was just worried it was too small. Also there is tons of rust on it, can I just spray paint the outside with rust protective paint?

Thanks!

edit: If 1hp is not undersized for 30-35K gal, why would a residential pool owner ever need a 3hp pump? Water features? Solar?

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

How much is your rebate on pumps? I would suggest getting a 2-speed pump as your power cost is not likely high enough to warrant a VS ... unless you get a big rebate. You would save a lot by running on low speed for filtration and high for the spa or filter cleaning (and maybe for running the G2).

Are you sure about your pool volume? That is awfully big and would certainly point to the filter being pretty undersized.

 

[PhxSun]

Thanks!

The rebate as of now is $150. The energy rates are:
May-June: 10.44 (first 700kWh), 11.12 (701-2000kWh), 12.18 (2000+kWh)
July-August: 11.04, 11.65, 12.70
November-April: 8.03

Yeah the pool is awfully big and super deep at the diving end, I bet our kids will love it though once they are old enough to swim The size is not a definitive, but it was the guess of the pool technician that I had come out when we bought the house 2 years ago to explain me everything.

Right now I have the G2 in the pool basically all the time and take it out only when there is a lot of little stuff on the surface, so I would have to change that habit right?

At the moment the G2 is attached to the skimmer, but we had a company give us a quote for re-plastering and he suggested that we could resize the former feed line in the center of the pool and make it a suction line for the G2, so the cleaner is centered and so the skimmer can freely skim. So the pump would have to be 'big' enough for that (if that would even influence it)

 

[jblizzle]

Can you provide some dimensions of the pool? That does not look like 30k gallons, but could be deceptive. My pool looks like it has more surface area, although it is mostly shallow and I am around 18k.

Having a dedicated cleaner port is a good idea. Although either a pressure side or suction cleaner may require some time running on high speed in order to function correctly. To avoid that, you could go the electric robot route.

$150 rebate is not that big. The VS pumps are around $900 and the 2-speed are around $500 ... Do you have to buy from and have it installed by a certainly company of can it be DIY?

 

[PhxSun]

Yeah I think it is deceptive because everyone that comes to our house, pool people included, always comment on how big the pool is, lol. I'll go measure it though!

And I can install it myself (I am pretty handy and was planning on doing everything myself), my energy provider will send someone out to calibrate it then and after that they apply the rebate.

Brb with the measurements!

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, PhxSun

For a pool your size, a robot is likely a better choice than a suction side cleaner...though it sounds like the suction side has worked fine. A robot will require no tubing or for that matter plumbing changes.

If you post the width and length, and depths we may be able to confirm your approximate volume, though I would guess the 30-35K you list is in the ballpark assuming a 9 ft deep end.

For a pump, it does not appear that you have any significant water features that require much flow rate, so a 1 hp 2-speed such as the pentair superflo model 340042 would likely be a good fit or the hayward maxflo xl model SP2307X102 or the Hayward superpump SP2607X102S. In terms of vs pumps the ecostar is overkill. Look at the Maxflo vs or superpump vs

For the filter, our recommended minimum filter sizes for the three types are (assuming 35000 gallons):

• Cartridge filter 548 sq. ft.
  Sand filter 6.5 sq. ft.
  DE filter 98 sq. ft.

 

[PhxSun]

Thanks again!
Attached is the pool (thanks google maps) and it's measurements. The shorter arrows on the sides indicate the shallow end, even though by the arrows it is probably 5-6 ft and then drops off very steeply. The spa is about 8x4.
Yes so far the suction cleaner worked fine, after dust storms in the summer and every so often I attach the manual cleaner to the hose and pole and sweep everything because the G2 obviously doesn't go everywhere every time.

I don't have any water features at all right now (well aerator, slide and spa), but I would want to be able to add some down the road if there is fun stuff for kids.
Would those pumps be strong enough for a roof solar system (unlikely that we'll install one, but maaaaybe)?

 

[linen]

Would those pumps be strong enough for a roof solar system (unlikely that we'll install one, but maaaaybe)?

Should be unless you are installing on a really high (like 3 story or higher) roof.

For volume, I am gestimating about 33000 gallons from your dimensions.

 

[PhxSun]

Haha, no three story, typical old Tempe ranch style house.

Ok I just looked up all the pumps you suggested but unfortunately non are eligible for the rebate.
Here is a list of all the pumps I could get:

 

[linen]

Looks like the above mentioned maxflo vs and the superpump vs are both on there. In the case of the maxflo, they spelled it wrong. Are you located in Az?

 

[PhxSun]

Oh ok, whoops. I was looking at the model number and couldn't find it...

Yes I live in Tempe, AZ.

 

[linen]

Looks like srp allows self install, so if you are a diyer, you can save some money there and even buy the pump online (which will also save some dough).

Even with the rebate, the maxflo vs pump will cost more at 625-150= ~$475 versus superflo at ~ $425...but the difference is small, so I think it is worth it.

 

[PhxSun]

Ok two questions,

What is the difference between the two models? I was reading their specs on amazon but can't really figure it out

And isn't the Maxflo the cheaper one? I have the Maxflo at $617 on amazon and the Superpump at $709. Or do I misunderstand your post?

edit: Ok got it, I looked up the before mentioned Super Pump not Superflo.
edit 2: yes I will do it myself (maybe minus the wiring)

 

[linen]

They are really similar and either will work for you. The maxflo provides a little more flow at low head pressures, but the superpump can supply flow to a slightly higher head pressure. I would go with the maxflo.

The superflo I was referring to is not a vs pump, but the lowest cost 2-speed (it is a pentair product), and I was just using it for comparson so that you could see how much more a vs would cost over a 2-speed.

 

[PhxSun]

Ok if the 90 dollar difference doesn't matter would you still get the 2300 over the 2600?

From what google tells me head pressure basically means how high the pump could get the water, so I understand the higher the value the more pressure in the filter it could work against, right?
My filter runs between 8 and 20 psi, but that is with lots of air leaks, so I am guessing higher pressure once sealed.

 

[jblizzle]

Lets back up a bit.
This has a spa that uses the same pump ... so you likely do not want to go with a smaller pump than what you currently have of the jets will suffer.

The Max-flo VS and SuperPump VS are small pumps similar to the Superflo 1HP 2-speed on high ... but are we sure that is a big enough pump to run the spa jets? Or should you be getting a higher flow pump like the Whisperflo line?

I just do not want you to end up with something that is weaker than you currently have and not be happy with the spa performance.

 

[PhxSun]

Well right now I have a 1hp single speed pump @3450rpm. The full info is in the photo of my initial post
edit: my main goals are obviously having it as silent (it is right at the wall where the couch is in the living room) and energy efficient as possible.

 

[linen]

This has a spa that uses the same pump ... so you likely do not want to go with a smaller pump than what you currently have of the jets will suffer.

Good point jbliz...I lost track of that How many jets and what is the internal diameter of the jets?

Your current pump appears to be a 1hp full rated pentair challlenger (pac-fab) which will move more water than either of the vs pumps I mentioned above.

edit: my main goals are obviously having it as silent (it is right at the wall where the couch is in the living room) and energy efficient as possible.

Even if you go with a larger vs pump, it likely will still be energy efficient and quiet, since most the time you would keep the rpms low.