Cloudy water after treatment

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mikemass

mikemass

0
Jul 10, 2013
490
Northern Howell, NJ
In an attempt to knock out a mild stain on the floor of my deep end, I think I have caused larger issues.

It was recomended to me to use Sparkle Conquest to knock out the stain. Pool has always been crystal clear with no signs of algae. All I ever do is adjust my SWG higher when we in the height of the summer and add Muriatic acid to keep my pH down. I never use any other products till now. Here's a timeline of the steps I've have taken and where I am at now:

Friday night I turned off my Salt water clorinator to bring down my clorinine as all sequestering agents (Conquest in my case) work better in a low CL environment.

Saturday Morning I add some Muriatic acid to lower pH to 7.0-7.2. I let the pool run all morning and afternoon with SWG off in pure sunshine. I test FC and I'm still holding 5.0 FC (I have adeqate CYA levels). Sat afternoon I put 3/4 gallon of Polyquat 60 in (to protect pool once FC eventually will drop). Run filter till 4:00pm

Sunday morning: Pool still cystal clear. Test again around 10:00 am. pH 7.0, FC 3.0 (finally inching lower.) At 11:00pm I add 2 qts of Sparkle Conquest. Run filter. I get home around 3:30. Look at the water and pool still cystal clear, but stain still present. I think "oh well" waste of money on the Conquest or maybe it will just take longer. I figure mission unsucessful, so starting Monady (today) I will turn SWG back on and chalk up experience as another failed attempt to rid this stain. I leave house for a few hours. Filter turns off at 4:00 pm.

Well.... I get home at 8:30 pm. Turn the pool light on and go outside. The water is MILKY WHITE CLOUDY! I can barely make out the second step and can't see the 3rd at all. Run Filter all night and at 5:00 am this morning (Monday) maybe a touch better as I can see the 3rd step. But not much beyond that.

Did the Polyquat do this (which I added Sat) or the Conquest (which I added yest afternoon)? Or a combo of both? And what now?

Calcium hardness has always been right around 280-300
It's a Gunite pool with while plaster
38k gallons.
 
The MSDS for Sparkle Conquest shows it to be 60% HEDP (the rest, water) which is our recommended metal sequestrant. The recommended amount of Polyquat is 9 ounces per 10,000 gallons (16 ounces max, when there is visible algae growth) so in your 38,000 gallon pool that would be 34.2 ounces. 3/4 gallon of Polyquat is 96 ounces so you significantly overdosed the Polyquat. That might account for some of the cloudiness. The good news is that it should filter out so keep your pump/filter running 24/7. Polyquat is also a clarifier so there may have been fine particles in your pool that the Polyquat has now bonded to and coalesced causing the cloudiness that needs to be cleared. Normally, with smaller doses, one doesn't see this and the coagulation/filtration process is slower over a longer period of time.

You didn't say how much Sparkle Conquest you used so it's possible you overdosed that as well. The recommended dose is 1 ounce per 5,000 gallons so in your 38,000 gallon pool that would be 7.6 ounces. How much did you use?
 
This is what my Dolphin is picking up. It's like a putty consistency in the bag. But very powdery in the water. I think the Conquest Sequestered the Clacium Scale right off the plaster. Hopefully it's not the plaster breaking down!
[attachment=1:3q74so3j]Bag 1.JPG[/attachment:3q74so3j][attachment=0:3q74so3j]Bag 2.JPG[/attachment:3q74so3j]
 
Well. I posted as much as I can in videos and pictures. I know you can't see much detail in the pics as youy really have to reduce the file size down to upload them on this site. I have come to the conclusion that the Sparkle Conquest must have broken down and sequestered a good amount of calcium scale off the walls. I never felt I had terrible scale, but this is my best guess as to what this white powder is. I am happy to report that the Dolphin is doing a great job in picking it all up. The pool is nice and clear now. A few more cycles with the Dolphin and a cleaning of the filter and I'm sure I'll be good to go. And I am brigging the CL leavels back slowly with my SWG.
 
I just had another thought. Earlier this season I added Borates to my pool via the method listed in this forum using 20 Mule Team Borax. Being that Borates are a mineral.... And the job of a Sequestering agent is to Sequester minerals.... I am now thinking that the white powder could be the Borax coming out of solution in the presence of the Conquest. It surely looks exactly like it. Any thoughts on that theory? I'll be curious to do a Borate test when I get home and see if my Borates have dropped.
 

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Well, of course a tenant of BBB is to never put things into your pool when you are not sure of the outcome. I have no clue what caused the precipitation or what it is (without just guessing) so that's the very limited extent of my "quasi-expert" advice.

Keep your pool water management as simple as possible and the surprises will be minimized.
 
Was a clarifier ever added to the pool, or an anionic (negatively charged) metal sequestrant such as poly acrylic acid (PAA)? Polyquat is a cationic (positively charged) clarifier and will create a precipitated mess with an anionic clarifier as they will combine to form a precipitate.

You had earlier written that you dosed 3/4 gallon, not 2 quarts, so is why I thought you overdosed (also, some other brands give a different initial dose instruction) though that was for the Polyquat which does sound like it was overdosed (but I wouldn't expect it to form that much precipitate regardless).
 
No. Never used a clarifier. Untill now never used anything really except the very basics. I manage my pH rise with MA, and I manage my FC with my SWG. Can't get much simpler than that. This is the first time my pool has ever seen an algecide. Never had a need for one.
 
Update: (For anyone who cares on this topic)... Perhaps someone down the road months or years from now will do a search and find this information I am digging up useful.

I am even more convinced that the Borax is what is percipitating out of my water. This Sparkle Conquest is an amazing product. It's clearly not your ordinary Sequestering Agent. I spoke with a rep at the manufacture's lab of this product. And I pulled this excerpt from the label as well:

"Add this product directly to pool water while walking around perimeter at the rate of 1 quart per 20,000 gallons. In freshly filled pools where mineral presence is suspected, add product to the water several hours before adjusting pH or adding chlorine. This allows the product to sequest minerals before chemicals can cause them to discolor the water or stain the pool finish. When this product is added to mineral discolored pools, it will eliminate the unwanted color and should remove many stains that regularly occur in pools in their normal operation
Turn off the filtration system in the evening and allow the water to settle overnight. The next morning, vacuum any settled precipitate to waste. Depending upon mineral content, this procedure may have to be repeated each morning until pool floor is clean the next morning. Squestering occurs in a few hours. Stain removal will start to occur immediately but will take up to a week to penetrate deeply imbedded stain."

Borax is a mineral. It makes perfect sense that this product would pull that out of solution. Plus if you look at my pictures, you can see it looks exactly like the Boarax detergent. I will test tonight with my Borate strip and post back. But the pool looks great and OH, by the way..... Original stain is gonzo.
 
There seems to be a semantics issue here. Sequestering agents for pools are used tokeep minerals, usually iron, in their soluble form....in other words it prevents them from coming out of solution into a precipitate.

I can't understand their verbage when they say it sequesters minerals yet they expect them to precipitate.....those two are the precise opposite in my mind.
 
The word sequester comes from the Latin word sequestrare meaning to "stand apart". It is also defined as "to set aside; to separate and reject; to eliminate." In chemistry the term "sequester" as in sequester metal you must either remove it from solution or combine it with something else to prevent it from coming out of solution.
 
I'm not sure I have the knowledge to say. But in the strictest sense of the definition I'd say it can be either: Sequester - "Separate- set aside" So if a metal stain (or calcium scale) is on the surface, it can be said that to "sequester" it means to "seaparte" it from the surface, whether it be in solution form or an unattached precipitate.

In the case of my once dissolved Borates, it is now "separated" from solution and is now in the form of a percipitate that can be manually removed through vacumming.
 

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