Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In It?

[easttn]

A little confused here about this Pool Winterizing Kit.

The kit comes with the following items:
Winterizing Powder (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride & Sodium Carbonate)
Non-Chlorine Shock Powder (contains Monopersulfate)
Winter Stain and Scale Control Liquid (contains Phosphonates)

My first questions are about the winterizing powder. The bag says its a pH buffer and prevents scale buildup during the offseason. Shouldnt it be Sodium Bicarbonate instead of Sodium Carbonate to adjust the TA? If I put that bag of winterizing powder in the pool, is it not going to just raise my pH for no reason? It also contains the quat algeacide which it doesnt describe as having an algeacide in the bag. As far as the bag saying it prevents scale buildup during the offseason, that doesnt make any sense to me and it would seem to me it would increase my scaling chance if it raises my pH up.

Next thing is the Non-Chlorine Shock. I thought you are supposed increase to pool to shock level (with chlorine) then keep it there and cover it up so it will remain there for a good while during the offseason. Then I ran upon this page:
acceptable-level-of-chlorine-w-solid-pool-cover-t70323.html
that really confused me about the bleaching effect of having a high level of chlorine in there for so long. What would be the right thing to do? Raise to shock level, pour in the non-chlorine shock and close it, or do something else.

Next would be the Stain and Scale Control liquid. I dont know what is in it or even if I would even need to use it since I use city water or maybe they want me to use it because the winterizing powder will increase the pH to who knows where. I have never used any stain or scale stuff before since I have never needed it. I need some advice here. Thanks.

 

[linen]

Re: Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In

If you don't know why you are using it, don't put it in your pool.

We recommend raising the pool to your SLAM level and maintain it there while running the pump for 24 hours before closing, and if you want extra insurance, you can use a polyquat60 algaecide (I don't use this) ...that is all.

Chlorine levels up to your SLAM level, will not bleach your pool.

 

[easttn]

Re: Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In

Well you dont understand. Its an on-going battle here between me and my father about what to use in the pool. It is his pool, but I am the one who takes care of the chemicals. He buys them and I more or less have to prove my point on something before it gets bought. He dont know what is in stuff and goes by what the pool store tells him instead of what I have learned or know. I try to tell him different but he just does not want to listen to me. He thinks the winterizing powder is some kind of antifreeze that keeps the pool from freezing in the winter. It took me forever to explain to him that pool shock is chlorine and bleach is too. I even showed him with the chlorine test, but really I dont think he believes me. He thinks the Trichlor tabs are the only source of chlorine. I work hard to keep the pool in balance and in a weeks time he added the chemicals and screwed it all up. So that is what I have to deal with.

But anyway, he bought this stuff and that is what he says he used last year and I wanted more information on it before I have to go argue my point. Yes I told him he wasted his money buying this stuff when I saw it, but now he's got it and more than likely it will end up in the pool.

 

[linen]

Re: Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In

Well you dont understand.

Your right, I didn't...following "pool store" recommendations and tfp recommendations is a recipe for disaster. If you father is in charge, and if he won't read up in tfp's pool school to learn our way of pool care, then I would just do what he asks and be done with it.

You could try asking him to tell you why each product should be put in the pool :lol:

 

[kcindc]

Re: Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In

The key about putting chemicals in the pool is knowing why you are adding something and knowing what it will do after you add it. TFP guidelines state that you bring pool to shock level per the CYA chart and make sure the rest of your chems are within normal limits (PH, TA, CH, CYA). All of which can be maintained with simple, cheap products (bleach, baking soda, borax, acid).

Can you post a full set of test results and what test you used to get the results?

Let's see what is in the stuff your Dad wants you to add to the pool. Here is what I found:

Winterizing Powder (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride & Sodium Carbonate)

First ingredient is Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride is also known at ADBAC and is used in disenfecting wipes, etc. Seems like an expensive and ineffective algeacide.

Second ingredient is Sodium Carbonate is known by the common name of baking soda which raises TA. Not sure how much baking soda is in this combined product, so it is hard to tell how much it will raise TA. I don't like adding things that I can't calculate what they are going to do to my chemicals.

Non-Chlorine Shock Powder (contains Monopersulfate)

This stuff might show up as CC when testing. It is an oxidizer which seems like an expensive alternative to bleach. If you have enough bleach (aka FC) then the need for an oxidizer is useless. More info in this post:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/dupont-oxone-monopersulfate-for-chem-geek-t36583.html

Winter Stain and Scale Control Liquid (contains Phosphonates)

First item, if you don't have stains (as in metal stains), you don't need this. Removing metal stains is a process and there are specific products that depend on what type of stain and whether you have removed metal from the water. I wouldn't use it if you didn't have stain. It will use up free chlorine.

Second item, is used to prevent scale if you high CH and are unable to reduce CH by replacing some of the water (like the folks in some parts of the southwest). Do you have high CH?

I wouldn't add these things to my pool.

 

[easttn]

Re: Pool Winterizing Kit Help, Do They Even Know What Is In

This is the first pool closing that I have paid attention to and I guess I was more or less wanting to see If anyone else uses this kind of stuff for the winter and their opinions.

What I planned on doing before was to take the steps out, check my water balance, shock the pool, add algeacide and cover it up. Not including the pipes and pump and stuff. Now that he has that box of stuff, Im afraid hes going to dump it in there without my knowledge since he knows I dont like it and he probably will. I tried to talk him into buying a sump pump to mix the water up about January or February and adding more chlorine because last spring I kept an eye on the chlorine and it bottomed out a couple months before it was opened, but he didnt care.

I use test strips, and the OTO/RedDrop pH test kit from walmart and pool store results from time to time. Yea I know its not ideal or exact, but he wont buy a good kit so thats what I have to use. Since I understand the limitations of each type of kit and pool store results not being totally accurate, I combine them to get a real good idea of what kind of numbers I have. I do pretty good at it, if you can believe it. My numbers are good except for a high CYA 70ppm (pool store claims 40, test strip shows about 60-70) but Im not going to worry about that until next year since rain water penetrates his cover and will dilute everything anyways if the cya bacteria dont get it.