Mystery Pool

[Enmity]

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking the board for quite a while, learning everything I can. I appreciate this resource to the fullest. Thank you!

Here's the info on the pool.

My wife and I recent purchased our first home, in Encino, in the San Fernando Valley (CA/Los Angeles Area).
The home was built in 1954, and a pool was added in 1959, permitted and built to spec.

After the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, the previous owners became scared, as the pool was above the home, on the tiered property, and permanently covered the pool.

As a part of our renovations on the home (mostly do-it-yourself) and thanks to our wedding, we have been able to save a bit, and plan to rehab/rebuild the pool.

Cool part?

Previous owner of the home was a full Kernel in the Army. I keep finding awesome kink-knacks around the home. Thus, logically, I assumed there would be gold, bodies, a howitzer, or something equally amazing hidden under the covered pool.

How did they cover it? Basically they roofed over it. Plywood, rolled roofing, sealed. Complete with vents. They built an internal structure to support the roof. I could walk over the cover, no problem.

Attached are pictures of the pool, the side of the structure they built, and a vent. Next post will contain more.

 

[Enmity]

So, we decided, we'd better see what we're up against.

We cut a hole in the pool and... Nothing.

Just a lot of dirty plaster, a few holes so the pool wouldn't have issues with water, and an old, old pool. The pool is 15x30, about 18.5k volume.

So here's the deal.

We've gotten some quotes, and we're leaning towards putting in Pebble Sheen or an equivalent into the pool. We prefer the look of the aggregate, but we don't want to run into the issues with people complaining about the roughness of Pebble Tec.

Also, surprise, I have no equipment! Yay. So that means I get to start from scratch. I've heard very good things about Pentair, so I'm leaning towards buying mostly Pentair items.

Here's where I'm curious if I've made the right calls.


Prospective PB seems to be pushing Hayward equipment, but it seems that he has a rebate from his work with them. I feel more comfortable buying and installing all of the equipment myself (pretty strong plumbing/electrical experience) so I can be completely comfortable and knowledgeable of the system in the future.

My current, ideal setup is:

Pebble Sheen Finish. Replacing Coping, full repipe, replacing tile, adding an autofill and suction line for a vacuum.

Equipment: Leaning towards buying most items off Amazon.

Pump: Pentair 3/4 or 1 hp Pump. I don't have much head on my lines, maybe 30 feet max, so I'm leaning towards lower and more cost effective to run. Is it worth putting in a variable speed? Do they have many issues, or the same as a normal pump?

Filter: Pentair CCP 420. Leaning towards Cartridge, as I don't want to deal with DE, and I'm cool with cleaning it as needed, as I get pressure raises.

Sanitation: Pentair IC40. Seems large for the size pool, but most people state that the IC20 is not strong enough to manage.

Additions: Putting in an IntelliPH (which comes with a controller, not sure if I need a separate controller for the IC40 as well) and changing the light to the Pentair Intellicolor, I'd like an LED light that can make things look nice.

I'll install drainage around the pool, knock out all the old concrete, and put in an auto drain connected to the drainage. Leaning towards stamped concrete, in maybe an Ashlar Slate, possibly in a brown or beige. Not sure on the Pebble Sheen color yet.

Hoping my choices seem logical- I've never owned a pool before. Most of what I've learned has been from this site. Correct me or give me a heads up if anything seems foolish or illogical!

Pictures of the inside of the pool to follow!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

:: oh yeahhhhhh... this is gonna be a fun one to watch!

Pictures! we're going to need a LOT of pictures... capisce?

 

[Butterfly]

^^^^^ oh yeah! :-D :-D

::

 

[kimkats]

OH yeah! I sub. this one! THIS is going to be fun to watch. We need LOTS of pics!

Make sure to get at least 3 people to quote your prices/jobs AND go look at their last 2 pools and talk to the owners to get an idea of their problems if any.

Kim

 

[deeanron]

We want to see inside the hole you cut!! Post all the pictures you can put up!

 

[massimo]

This is gonna be a fun one to watch! Lots of luck!

 

[BoDarville]

Yep, this will be an interesting one to watch.

Pump: Pentair 3/4 or 1 hp Pump. I don't have much head on my lines, maybe 30 feet max, so I'm leaning towards lower and more cost effective to run. Is it worth putting in a variable speed? Do they have many issues, or the same as a normal pump?

In CA, your electric rates are likely over $0.20/kWh, so I would opt for a variable-speed (VS). Both Hayward and Pentair have come out with lower HP VS pumps, so I would check these out. I would even go so far to state that no one with an IG or sizable AG pool should consider a single-speed pump today, especially with 2-speed pumps costing barely more than the equivalent single-speed. Even with my relatively low electric rates, it is just a matter of time before I swap out my motor out for a 2-speed.

As far as issues with VS pumps, the most common one I have read about is increased vulnerability to surges from nearby lightning strikes due to the fact that VS pumps have more electronic controls than single-speed or 2-speed pumps. However, this shouldn't be as big of an issue where you are located. The solution is a surge/circuit protector.

 

[Bama Rambler]

First and foremost. A huge thank you for your writing style. The way you formatted and presented it, made it very easy to read and follow.
Secondly; Welcome to TFP.

Now on to the meat,

My current, ideal setup is:

Pebble Sheen Finish. Replacing Coping, full repipe, replacing tile, adding an autofill and suction line for a vacuum.

Equipment: Leaning towards buying most items off Amazon.

Pump: Pentair 3/4 or 1 hp Pump. I don't have much head on my lines, maybe 30 feet max, so I'm leaning towards lower and more cost effective to run. Is it worth putting in a variable speed? Do they have many issues, or the same as a normal pump?

Filter: Pentair CCP 420. Leaning towards Cartridge, as I don't want to deal with DE, and I'm cool with cleaning it as needed, as I get pressure raises.

Sanitation: Pentair IC40. Seems large for the size pool, but most people state that the IC20 is not strong enough to manage.

Additions: Putting in an IntelliPH (which comes with a controller, not sure if I need a separate controller for the IC40 as well) and changing the light to the Pentair Intellicolor, I'd like an LED light that can make things look nice.

I'll install drainage around the pool, knock out all the old concrete, and put in an auto drain connected to the drainage. Leaning towards stamped concrete, in maybe an Ashlar Slate, possibly in a brown or beige. Not sure on the Pebble Sheen color yet.

I will let someone else comment on the plaster.

Equipment: Keep in mind that some mfg's won't honor the warranty if the equipment is bought online. Just be sure to do the research. Also, you should check the prices and warranty from the builder. If you buy three major pieces of equipment through a dealer they may offer a longer warranty on all of it.

Pumps: Given that you're in Ca, you might be a candidate for a variable speed pump. If your electric rates are above about 20¢ per kwh then it's worth considering. Especially given that you're redoing the plumbing.

Filter: That filter should be a good choice. I might consider going a little bigger if the cost isn't very much more.

Sanitation: The IC-40 would be the one to get. You want the swg to be 1½ to 3 times the size of the pool.

Addtitions: The IntellipH might be a good investment. The lights I can't comment on.

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, Enmity

You may want to look into what rebates you can get on either a vs or a 2-speed...seems like many people have gotten a significant rebate in CA.

Looking forward to your progress!

 

[Enmity]

Thank you all! Great words of advice.

I'm leaning towards a variable speed, as I am eligible for a $500 rebate on the pump.

However, I am not entirely well versed in selecting a good Variable speed pump, for my size of pool.

I value energy efficiency and silence above all else, so maybe something smaller? Any advice?

Leaning towards Pentair, again.

Edit: Just did some research. Seems like all pumps have the same top speed. However, I have noticed that there is a SVRS feature on some pumps. Does this feature usually lead to failure in a cleaning/vacuum feature? Would it be useful if I plan on splitting the drain when re-piping, or more of an annoyance due to the pump shutting itself down "by mistake" (does this really happen often)?


I'll post all kinds of pictures around and inside the pool tonight.

Might need some referrals to local pool builders, as the last estimate bailed because he didn't want to work on the pool on a tiered property... I suspect it's because I did not want his equipment.

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Looking forward to watch this one.

Pentair really only makes the Intelliflo which is a 3HP pump. The "smaller" one they have is the same, but the top speed is limited in software, so it costs the same as the "big" one. We see a lot of negative problems with the SVRS systems on the pump making the pump shut off while trying to vacuum or something. It should not be needed if you are able to have dual main drains.

Hayward came out with 2 smaller "VS" pumps the SuperPump and Max-flo VS. These would likely be plenty for your pool, BUT ... they are not as fancy as the Intelliflo or the Hayward EcoStar. They only have 3 speeds you can program and you can not set different times for each speed. They run in a set program where you set the start time, the length of speed 1 and then the off time where speed 2 is used for the remainder. Speed 3 can only be picked manually. Also, these pumps do NOT integrate with any of the automation setups.

If you are thinking of the Pentair SWG, you may consider the Pentair automation, and then you would be better sticking with the Pentair Intelliflo (or any brand 2-speed) pump.

 

[Enmity]

Yup from my research I'm leaning towards the Intelliflo VF.

Do you think that it's wise to go with further automation systems outside of the panel on the pump, SWG, and IntelliPH.

If only to run a dedicated vacuum line? Not necessary?

What do you think?

 

[jblizzle]

One limitation of the Pentair SWG is that you can only set it in increments of 20% ... with their automation, you can set it in increments of 1 or 5% (not sure).

Also since you are getting the IntelliPH, I have to think there is some automation that would run it and the SWG. Even if you do not include the pump in the automation. Although honestly, I am not too familiar with the Pentair line-up.

I am also no sure the VF is worth the extra cost over the VS ... there is not really too much value in knowing the flow rate.

 

[Enmity]

Right. I wonder if I could just get one of their panels that covers everything, but I'll have to price that out.

The only differences between the pumps (VS against the VF) is the VF seems to adjust automatically as needed, whereas the VS does not?

 

[bobby1017]

One limitation of the Pentair SWG is that you can only set it in increments of 20% ... with their automation, you can set it in increments of 1 or 5% (not sure).

You can adjust in 1% increments with the automation.

 

[jblizzle]

The VF lets you set a flow rate and the speed will adjust to maintain it (and could cost more $ in electricity if there was a partial blockage and the speed cranked up ... or maybe they are smart and have limits set ... I do not know).
The VS you just set a speed and the flow rate will change if the head loss changes.

There is no need to have a specific flow rate set, IMO.

 

[Enmity]

So it seems like the VS is the way to go.

Now I'm just confused about these automation panels. Most seem to do far more than I'm looking to accomplish.

 

[jblizzle]

Yeah, most the automation have a LOT of features. Is the IntelliPH a stand-alone or is there something that would do pH and have the SWG control? The Intelliflo has a good on board timer, so maybe you do not need any automation. You just need a way to have better control over the SWG setting.

Don't I recall something called Intellichem???

 

[jblizzle]

Although we do not typically recommend using the ORP sensors to control the SWG output, so maybe the Intellichem is not a good idea.

The Suntouch is a basic automation that will control the VS and the Intellichlor and then have the IntelliPH separate.