Pool Automation

[rcmarch]

I currently have a intermatic timer that control my pool/Spa. This is a rental property and I have a lot of trouble with renters not moving from pool to spa and back properly. the current process is make sure pump is on, hit spa heat and then rotate to valves to move from pool to spa. I find that renters will not return the values at the end properly, turn off the pump which turns off the heat but the heat comes back on when timer engages the pump

I am looking at the Easy Touch controller by Pentair and the PE240065RC by Intermatic. Are ther other options? Which one would have the best installation instruction manual.

I would like to wire the new controller myself but is sounds like the instruction manual is not that good. Is this forum a good place to get help with the wiring?

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Every manufacturer has some for of automation. I have Hayward, there is also Jandy in addition to the ones you mentioned. I am not sure any of the instruction manuals are that good, I think the Hayward was clear enough, after reading it many times. I hear the Pentair ones are pretty cryptic though.

Can you add more details about the equipment and plumbing setup? And what exactly is everything you want to control?

Then you have to decide do you just want to have buttons at the automation center for them to push?
Do you want to have a remote controller in the house or even wireless remote?
Do you want to have control via a phone/internet? (that could be nice so you could check the status remotely and turn things on/off)

Pentair does the phone/internet interface much better than Hayward.

There are a lot of options, but it is hard to know exactly what to suggest without more information. If you have a SWG or a VS pump, it is generally a good idea to stick with the same brand automation.

Likely there is someone here that can help you at every step of the installation ... assuming you have some experience with wiring.

 

[rcmarch]

I have a Pentair high temp heater. The pool (about 10,000 gal) and spa are integrated so you have to rotate two valves to isolate the spa. You also have to change the heat from pool to spa. I would like the automatic system to 1. turn on pump if it is off for the night. 2. turn valves to isolate the spa and 3. Set the heat to spa. I originally thought there might be a way to used a 1 hr timer to start the process like they have hotels and return the controls to the beginning configuration at the end of the hour. i.e if pool heat was on at the beginning, return to pool heat If pool heat was off return to the off mode.

This is a rental house and I would like to have it simple of the renter. They always seem to do it wrong even though I have a note book with the steps and pictures of each step. The worst case is that they turn the pump off before turning the spa heat off. When the pump comes on in the morning the heater is trying to heat the pool to over 100 degrees.

I would like to make this a inexpensive as possible and as simple as possible. The easy touch looks good bu has way more capability than I need.

Rich

 

[jblizzle]

Just about any simple automation will do the 3 things you mention.

There is something called a "countdown timer" in the Hayward systems (I am sure they all have it). Where you push a button and it will do its thing for the set amount of time. {Disclaimer, I am not sure this works on the Spa button, but it might} You could just push a button (or maybe 2), and the spa would turn on and after the set time it will turn off.

Seems like you need a very basic system, but I am not sure which to recommend. The P4 that I have would do what you want, and can also control SWG and solar, etc, so still likely overkill.

 

[jblizzle]

Looking at the Pentair line of automation, you might just need something like the Sun Touch. That might be a simple way to go {Disclaimer, I have not read the manual}

 

[rcmarch]

I have decided on the SunTouch system. It looks like it will do all that I need it to do. In concept the hardest part will be how to wire the heating system in to operate properly, moving from off or pool heat to spa heat and back. The reviews on SunTouch are mostly bad in regard to the installation manual.

 

[rcmarch]

I have decided on the SunTouch II for my automation. It is currently on order. I was looking though the literature and have a question. My pump is a two speed pump but it was set up to run at high speed 100% of the time. The SunTouch system can control a two speed pump. My questions are 1) since who ever installed the pump set it up to run on high all the time, what would be the benefit to changing it to be controlled as a two speed pump motor. How would it be wired into the panel if I wanted it to be high speed all the time?

 

[jblizzle]

Why on earth would you want to run on high speed all 100% of the time? That is such a huge waste of $ on electricity and begs the question why you even bothered to spend the extra money on the 2-speed in the first place. Wonder if the installer just had no clue.

You are running on high 24/7? That is way more than you need. In fact running 24/7 on low is likely way more than you need. Here is an article that discusses determining run time: pool-school/pump_run_time

I would certainly set it up to run on high for maybe an hour and then low for a few more hours and that is likely plenty.

 

[rcmarch]

I did not have the system installed, I just bought the home. I run the pump about 6 hours a day depending on the pool temperature. I set it to run longer if the pool is being heated in the winter, normally about 12 hours. It may be that the current pump is set correctly but is has two timers. I was told to leave one on all the time and the other is the one that I set for filtering the pool.

I take your response as it would be good to connect the new controller correctly. Pentair makes a little more money as you need to buy a two speed relay which is not provided in the controller package.

Can some one explain how the two speed works should it run on high for a while and then low speed. What about when the pool is being heated. Will the lower speed move enough water through the heater?

 

[jblizzle]

Low moves half the water that high does for a quarter of the electricity. So even doubling the run time on low is a 50% savings.

High speed usually runs the skimmer better which is why I have a short run on high.

Solar heating is most efficient at higher flow rates, so you get better heating on high. But once the solar is primed, low speed may keep the water moving, but you get less heat into the pool.

 

[rcmarch]

I just had a thought, my pool has a pop-up pool cleaning system. I know that if the filters need to be cleaned the pop-ups will not cycle. I am assuming that the cleaning system will not work properly on the low speed. Is that correct? If I connect the two speed pump up correctly what would be a good starting point for the high speed cycle to clean the pool floor and then switching to low speed. Maybe that is just a trial and error adjustment. Thanks

 

[jblizzle]

You are correct, with a pop-up floor system, there is much less advantage to having a 2-speed pump since you would need to run on high to have that function correctly. This is certainly one of the disadvantages of that system, you have to run a large pump at higher speed for a long time each day for it to function.

When are you cleaning the filter? We recommend doing that when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.

Please add your pool details to your signature and location to your profile as described HERE as it will help us help you.

 

[rcmarch]

I am thinking that it is not worth paying an additional $120 for the two speed relay for the SunTouch Controlls because of the pop-up cleaning system. Does anyone have any advice that might change my mind. The system has freeze protection would that work better on low speed rather than high speed?

 

[jblizzle]

The speed does not matter for freeze protection.

 

[rcmarch]

I now have my SunTouch controller. I have read the installation manual but have the following question. They show the transformer connected with wire nuts to the 240V source. The transformer wires run under the motor relay which is also feed by 240 volt. Is there a reason that the transformer can not be attached to the power in terminals of the pump relay. The only difference I see is that I have a a breaker between the power source and the pump. Is it recommended that the transformer source not run thought the breaker? If then input power to both the pump and the transformer can be connected to the relay and the terminals of the relay will not take two wires, could a pig tale be used, incoming power wire to transformer wire and then a pig tail to go to the pump relay in terminals.

 

[rcmarch]

One more question. In connecting the SunTouch to the Master Temp heater the manual says to remove the jumper on the EXT Switch connector and to connect a two wire cable from the SunTouch to the EXT Switch terminal. Is this a jumper that the Master Temp wiring diagram shows at the fireman's switch?