ProTeam Products

[ChadR]

I've seen comments in support of the ProTeam Supreme and Metal Magic products. I've been using all ProTeam products along with Nature2 filter for several years and have been very happy. I've been evaluating other chemical options such as straight BBB. Of course I would like to save some money, but I don't want to increase the amount of work or risk messing up the 'perfect pool' that I've maintained for 5 or 6 years. A couple of questions about the ProTeam products...

Supreme
Besides the convenience of pH neutral, are there other advantages in initial dosing with ProTeam Supreme over straight Borax? If you do start off with Supreme, do you just top-off as needed with Borax instead of their Weekly Treat maintenance product?

Shock-N-Swim
I know their shock-n-swim is non-chlorine shock... and there's lots of support for BBB on here... But, if I am doing a regular weekly shock treatment, is this product better than say WalMart's 4-n-1 shock packs?

3" Pure Tabs
I like to use skimmer tabs to maintain/replenish the chlorine levels. Are the ProTeam "Pure" tabs any better than regular tri-chlor tabs from Walmart?

MicroFloc
Is this clarifier any better than others? Do you need to use a product like this regularly or just as needed basis?

FYI, I do still have a Nature2, but have not put in a new cartridge this year (which I have already bought). I have concerns about shocking with bleach or even Walmart's 4-n-1 shock and the minerals from the Nature2. Should I be concerned?

Thanks for any feedback and recommendations!

Chad R.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Hi, Welcome to TFP!

It would be helpful for us to know what kind of other equipment/pool you have, and what your water test numbers (and the source - strips-poolstore test) are. (LOL we want to judge if your pool is "perfect" hehehehe )

I don't like mineral/ionizer systems like the Nature 2, which is not really a "filter", its a cartridge that uses minerals/metals to help prevent algae. I am a bit biased against them, and won't hesitate to let anyone know my story .

If you have had the perfect pool using proteam products/nature 2, is it the cost that is making you research other methods?

Frankly that's a huge downside to your pool routine, I'm not saying that to be mean but you have to spending a small fortune!

Here's a thread I did a couple weeks ago, about whether I saved money switching to BBB....

does-the-bbb-method-save-me-money-t6634.html

And I bought alot of the Pre-BBB chemicals at Kmart/Walmart, in addition to the hardware store and pool store. I spent a small fortune in the 6 years before I found TFP. For me, it's a no-brainer.

If you'd like to hear my story about my ionizer and the journey I took, PM me and I'll tell ya.

 

[JasonLion]

Supreme - Regular Supreme is not PH neutral, it changes the PH in just the same way as borax. You don't need as many pounds of Supreme as you need of Borax, but it is far more expensive. Proteam Supreme Plus and Haviland Salt Support are PH neutral. The final result in the pool is exactly the same as borax.

Weekly Treat - Effectively borax, dry acid, and a clarifier.

Shock-N-Swim - 70% potassium monopersulfate (MPS), 30% stuff you don't need. Chlorine works just as well in outdoor pools as MPS and is less expensive. MPS has some value for indoor pools.

Pure Tabs - These are regular trichlor tablets. They are superior to the two in one and three in one tablets, which contain things you don't need, but are just the same as most other brands of regular trichlor tablets.

MicroFloc - Very similar to other clarifier products. Clarifier is almost never needed.

 

[ChadR]

frustratedpoolmom - I've updated my signature with the equipment/general setup I have. I say 'perfect' in that I've never had a single algae problem or any other problem in the six years I've had the pool. I've also got comments/compliments from almost every first time user about how sparkling and soft the water is and nice that there's no chlorine smell. OK... I have had one problem ... floating the liner once - but, no one to blame on that one but me

Yes, I'm looking at alternatives for cost reasons and I don't like only having one local supplier for the products. I don't have my exact costs, but obviously much more than BBB. At least, I've never had to spend any money on problem treatments

I've got down my pool support regiment to once a week add exact same amounts of ProTeam shock-n-swim, weekly treat (supreme), microfloc, and tabs. I only test the water about every other week and occasionally add alk up.

I'm really unsure if my trouble free experience has been due to ProTeam products and/or the Nature2 mineral filter. Most comments I've seen about the Nature2 range from they're bad to useless.

JasonLion, thanks for the feedback and direct answers.

I've got two dilemmas...

1.) Is the Nature2 significantly contributing to my algae free experience? If so, can I safely switch from the ProTeam non-chlorine shock to straight bleach for shock or Walmarts shock? If I do remove the Nature2, can I "get away" with as low of chlorine levels that I've maintained (0.5 - 1.0ppm)?

2.) If I switch from ProTeam products to Borax and maybe Walmart's shock and tabs - can I "get away" with minimal testing and set standard weekly dosages?

Thanks for the feedback!

Chad R.

 

[Guest]

I've seen comments in support of the ProTeam Supreme and Metal Magic products. I've been using all ProTeam products along with Nature2 filter for several years and have been very happy. I've been evaluating other chemical options such as straight BBB. Of course I would like to save some money, but I don't want to increase the amount of work or risk messing up the 'perfect pool' that I've maintained for 5 or 6 years. A couple of questions about the ProTeam products...

Supreme
Besides the convenience of pH neutral, are there other advantages in initial dosing with ProTeam Supreme over straight Borax? If you do start off with Supreme, do you just top-off as needed with Borax instead of their Weekly Treat maintenance product?
If you want the pH neutral product it's supreme plus. Supreme is just borax in pentahydrate form. You don't need weekly treat if you have supreme plus, use that instead. My suggestion is to not worry about the level until it drops to 30 ppm (assuming an initial 50 ppm) and then bring it back up to 50 ppm.
Shock-N-Swim
I know their shock-n-swim is non-chlorine shock... and there's lots of support for BBB on here... But, if I am doing a regular weekly shock treatment, is this product better than say WalMart's 4-n-1 shock packs?
It's MPS. You don't need it in an outdoor pool, use chlorine instead for shocking. If you want to stick with proteam products it will be their cal hypo super oxidizer which also contains borates.
3" Pure Tabs
I like to use skimmer tabs to maintain/replenish the chlorine levels. Are the ProTeam "Pure" tabs any better than regular tri-chlor tabs from Walmart?
If the walmart tabs are made by aquachem or pooltime then probably not since all three of these are actually manufactured by Chemtura! If Walmart is selling HTH then the Proteam are going to be a bit better--no copper and slower dissolving.
MicroFloc
Is this clarifier any better than others? Do you need to use a product like this regularly or just as needed basis?
Standard polymeric clarifier. You should not need a clarifier if you maintain your water properly.
FYI, I do still have a Nature2, but have not put in a new cartridge this year (which I have already bought). I have concerns about shocking with bleach or even Walmart's 4-n-1 shock and the minerals from the Nature2. Should I be concerned?
If you are going to use the N2 no you should not be concerned but why do you want to use the N2. It really doesn't do much except drain your wallet.
Thanks for any feedback and recommendations!

Chad R.

 

[JasonLion]

1.) Is the Nature2 significantly contributing to my algae free experience? If so, can I safely switch from the ProTeam non-chlorine shock to straight bleach for shock or Walmarts shock? If I do remove the Nature2, can I "get away" with as low of chlorine levels that I've maintained (0.5 - 1.0ppm)?

2.) If I switch from ProTeam products to Borax and maybe Walmart's shock and tabs - can I "get away" with minimal testing and set standard weekly dosages?

1) When the Nature2 system is working correctly, which is difficult to know, it does allow you to use lower FC levels than you otherwise would use. However, the additional chlorine required without the Nature2 is less expensive than the Nature2 cartridge, and the risk of stains from the metals in the Nature2 system are eliminated (once the existing metals go away).

If you current metal levels are high there is some risk of staining caused by shocking with chlorine, which is not a problem with MPS. Another issue is that increased use of trichlor can result in higher CYA levels, which could cause problems more quickly than it would otherwise if you stop using the Nature2 and continue using trichlor.

2) There is no difference between the ProTeam products and the other brands that will change how much you can get away with minimal testing and set standard weekly dosages. The tablets are just trichlor, the shock is MPS, Supreme is borax. Using other brands of the same chemicals will be the same. How much you can "get away" with really depends on other things that you wouldn't be changing when you change brands. On the other hand switching from MPS to chlorine for shocking could have some effect.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Here's something that has stuck with me, part of a post by Waterbear from last August:

"There are supplimental systems that claim they can reduce the amount of residual chlorine in the water. Most are metal based (copper, silver, and zinc). However, the low residual chlorine levels (usually .5 ppm) are NOT enough to insure that the water is sanitized. They will prevent algae growth but the kill times fo metals are very slow and a minimum 2 ppm free chlorine should really be used with these systems, IMHO. One of the biggest drawbacks to these systems is staining of pools and people (copper is what causes green hair). Many of them need to be run at a much lower pH than is commonly used to help prevent the staining but this can be aggresive to the plaster finish of a pool. "


I look back to all the times that I kept my pool at .5 cl and had small children swimming, in swim diapers... I was not testing regularly back then, if my water was clear I didn't worry about it. Oh, I may have used a strip from time to time. When I started seeing stains on the bottom of my pool year three, I began to test with strips more, as I was becoming concerned with what I believed to be algae growth. Every time I went to the pool store and said "my chlorine is not registering" they would tell me "don't worry about it, with the Frog it won't register". I almost never shocked my pool cause my water was always clear so I thought why do I need to shock?" I was told these systems PREVENT algae growth. It didn't matter how it looked, it mattered if it was SAFE.

I'm lucky with all the bird poop that gets in there, and all the kiddies I had swimming at the time, that no one became seriously ill from the lack of sanitation.

I just don't see any benefit from the alternative systems like "The Frog" and Nature 2. Its just sales pitch, if you ask me.

 

[chem geek]

I think that the use of metal ion systems, such as Nature2, can be useful in a chlorine spa as insurance against the chlorine level getting too low. Chlorine maintanence in a spa seems hard for some to manage consistently, so having the metal ions helps prevent runaway bacterial growth. It's not really to prevent algae in a spa as that is unusual given the lack of sunlight and hot temperatures.

In a pool, it doesn't seem worth it, especially not in a plaster or other pool where staining would be a problem.

I'm not promoting such systems -- I just see some relative value in spas. They aren't necessary, but can be seen in the same vein as using PolyQuat 60 weekly in a pool to prevent algae growth in case one forgets to add chlorine. A phosphate remover would be another similar insurance policy. Borates would be somewhat of an insurance policy and are always there (except for dilution from splash-out and backwashing), but I don't think they prevent algae growth as much. In terms of preventing algae growth, it's probably: Phosphate Remover > PolyQuat > Borates, but chlorine alone will prevent algae in all but the most unusual of situations (possibly extraordinary phosphate levels > 3000 ppb with nitrates high as well so as not to be a limiting factor).

Richard

 

[Cherie]

So Richard, are you then saying that phosphate remover would be the #1 choice for algae prevention, other than a properly balanced pool? My phosphates tend to run near zero to 150. I used a bunch of Phosfree in early July because Leslie's said my phosphates were high at 300, and only used a little bit a couple times later in the month, and none since July. But we still have boatmen, and now water scorpions, in the pool.

I did the experiment, as suggested on another thread, to see if the sand we have is, in fact, MA. It didn't multiply and now that I have some software to properly load the pictures, I will go back to that thread and do so. Also, I checked for 3 nights straight on the loss of FC and had 0 the first two nights and <.5 the 3rd night. But the stuff is really annoying - we don't have sand in our neck of the woods. It comes back again and again, even when I use clarifier and vac to waste and backwash. I'd hoped it may be pollen. Still don't know for sure, so we're going to MA shock it when the weather clears and we can walk up close enough to the pool to keep it swept (still have the mound of dirt from the install, waiting to pack down).

I was wanting to go borates, but not use borax/MA - just go the expensive route of Proteam Supreme Plus and be done with it. But from what you're saying, using the phosphate remover should be a first choice. Since I've got low phosphates, should I just do the MA shock (as extra insurance), then keep adding the Phosfree or Polyquat 60? The only hesitation to going borates is (1) one more test to keep up with, and (2) I think I read that the recommended levels of BBB will have to be altered a little. But then, I'd be doing a phosphate test too, wouldn't I? So Polyquat 60 weekly would be the best route that I wouldn't have to keep up with any other tests!

Thanks for your help.

 

[chem geek]

If the "sand" you have isn't yellow/mustard algae but is something else like dirt or pollen, then all of the alternatives you mentioned would be useless.

If, on the other hand, you really have yellow/mustard algae, then there are several alternatives for dealing with it. The first approach is to shock with chlorine making sure you get all equipment (poles, etc.) in the water and examine niches such as behind lights. You can also maintain higher FC levels at 15% of the CYA level.

If one doesn't want to go the above chlorine route, then that's when the other more expensive alternatives come into play. The 50 ppm Borates isn't expensive since it's fairly permanent, but may not be the most effective against algae. It's probably pretty good against green algae from what we've seen, but we don't have too much experience with it against yellow/mustard algae. PolyQuat 60 weekly *might* be better, but again there's not that much experience with it against MA. A phosphate remover (which can get quite expensive if phosphate levels are high) would prevent virtually any algae from growing which is why in your situation it sounds like what you have is not algae since it apparently keeps coming back even at very low phosphate levels.

The one more test you do with Borates is done infrequently, similar to CH and CYA tests. The recommended BBB levels when using Borates are the same as without using them. I think you are confusing this with the non-SWG vs. SWG recommendations.

Based on everything you've written, I would assume this is not algae and treat it via skimmer socks or use of a pool cover, if possible.

Richard

 

[Cherie]

Well, I didn't think about a pool cover. But that would certainly make a difference. We ought to do something to keep the rain out, now that I've got the water exactly how I want it!

My situation doesn't sound like algae, but just for my peace of mind, we'll do the MA shock, then follow up with weekly usage of Polyquat 60 as our insurance beginning next season...since I ended up buying TWO big jugs of the Phosfree in July (used one already and wrote on the other one)! They already got a bit miffed at me when I returned all the junk they sold me (after I found this site and discovered I didn't need any of it)! So I won't push my luck - I'll put the Phosfree to good use and just not bother testing for it, since I know I run very low on phosphates anyway.

Thanks for all your help! :handshake: