Low TA / high pH

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suziequsie2945

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May 31, 2013
176
New Jersey
I have been keeping an eye on my TA, which has been steady around 70 for a while. Our pH creeps us, leading me to have to add acid once a week or so. It has just finished raining here and the past few days I have been watching our pH creep up, preparing to add some acid today possibly as it is now at 7.7 I just checked our TA assuming it was still at 70, but it is now at 60.

What do you do when your pH is high and needs fixing, but your TA is low and needs fixing as well? Do I shoot to increase my TA first at this point? Or since it just finished raining, should I leave everything alone and wait and test again tomorrow and see where we are at?

FC: 4
TA: 60
pH: 7.7
 
Well every time you lower the pH even with muriatic acid it slow lowers your TA. Check out the pool calculator to get an idea of how much each addition of acid will lower it. You'll just have to add baking soda when ever you want to raise your TA back up. If your pool sees heavy use, lots of splashing or has a water fall, or a suction side leak the aeration could also be causing your pH to raise and your TA fall. You can't stop the use well you could but that wouldn't be any fun, but you can possible change the others, though they probably aren't your problem.
 
uloset said:
Well every time you lower the pH even with muriatic acid it slow lowers your TA. Check out the pool calculator to get an idea of how much each addition of acid will lower it. You'll just have to add baking soda when ever you want to raise your TA back up. If your pool sees heavy use, lots of splashing or has a water fall, or a suction side leak the aeration could also be causing your pH to raise and your TA fall. You can't stop the use well you could but that wouldn't be any fun, but you can possible change the others, though they probably aren't your problem.
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Yes, I do know the acid lowers the TA, which is not what I want to do at this point with a TA of 60, but I know increasing the TA with baking soda will also increase the pH, which is not what I want to do either. Just asking which I should treat in this case.
 
I would leave the TA alone and see if it and the pH settle somewhere. You are fine going a little lower than 60ppm.

Do you have a lot of aeration leading to the pH rise?
 
jblizzle said:
I would leave the TA alone and see if it and the pH settle somewhere. You are fine going a little lower than 60ppm.

Do you have a lot of aeration leading to the pH rise?
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Nope. Not that I can think of. We haven't swam in weeks since it's been cool out and the pool temp dropped. It hasn't rained much the past few weeks other than some rain today and no water features.

BTW, how much lower than 60 is fine and what happens if it goes below 60 and my pH is still high?
 
What do you deem as "high" pH? There is nothing wrong with 7.7-7.8. If it stays there, just leave it. But lower it if it gets to the 8s.

Just leave the TA alone and see what happens.

I am wondering if you are trying to maintain a pH lower than you need to and that the pool may find a happy place with the pH in the upper 7s.
 
jblizzle said:
What do you deem as "high" pH? There is nothing wrong with 7.7-7.8. If it stays there, just leave it. But lower it if it gets to the 8s.

Just leave the TA alone and see what happens.

I am wondering if you are trying to maintain a pH lower than you need to and that the pool may find a happy place with the pH in the upper 7s.
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Yeah, you may be right. Maybe my pool likes the pH a little higher. Whenever it hits around 7.7, I like to bring it down a bit to 7.6 or so, so I have some room to play with, but I'll just let it go this time and see what happens.

Is it okay to close a pool with a low TA, like 60? We're closing on September 11, and I'm just wondering about that.

I know it doesn't mention anything about adding algaecide in Pool School when closing, so I assume that is not recommended?? (It's probably more of a pool store thing to recommend adding that but want to make sure). I know we bring it to shock level before closing, just wondering about algaecide. If bringing it to shock level, there would be no need for algaecide if I am thinking correctly.
 
suziequsie2945 said:
Just tested CH the other day and was about 160 (vinyl pool). We're not terribly concerned with CH for a vinyl though, right?
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Only if it's high, in which case you would need to keep your pH in the lower part of the range to avoid scaling.
 

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Is your water going to be below 60 degrees on Sept 11? If not, then you should not close yet.

Did you read this:
pool-school/closing_in_ground_pool

It does say to use algaecide:
PolyQuat - Add the startup (maximum) dose of PolyQuat according to package directions. I give it half an hour to mix with the pump running before starting to drain. While I am waiting for that I proceed with the next three steps.
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Ok, I'm trying to understand the whole relationship between TA and pH, so please bear with me. To be honest, I'm a bit nervous of having TA on the low side (worried particularly about corrosion) when the recommended range is 80-120, but I know you guys know what you're talking about, so when you say 60 for TA is okay I believe you.

Hopefully, you can tell me if I am understanding properly: What I am understanding is that TA is ONLY a measurement. A low TA will not cause corrosion in and of itself but if the low TA causes your pH to be off significantly, the low pH is what will actually cause the corrosion. Is this correct? Therefore, if I have a low TA, but my pH is fine, there is no need to worry about it because the pH, the thing that can CAUSE the corrosion (not the TA) is within normal range. I want to make sure I understand this.

Another thing I am afraid of is wrinkling and such of my liner with such a low TA and am hoping you can put my mind at ease regarding this as I think if the TA stays so low I will have to address it before we close the pool so it doesn't cause any damage to the liner, or anything else.

(BTW...I am SO very grateful for you guys and this site. This was our best pool year by far and I couldn't have done it without you guys. If it wasn't for me finding you, I would probably be in the vicious cycle of the pool store merry-go-round. I have never taken care of the pool at all (my husband always did it) but this year he has been working like crazy so I took on the job of the pool, and because of you and your advice, it has never been clearer. Wish we found you sooner!)
 
I think you got it. TA buffers the pH from changing wildly with chemical additions. Too low and the pH swings, too high and it pulls the pH up. 60ppm is fine, although may not want to go much lower if at all. Not sure why this would affect the liner.
 
jblizzle said:
I think you got it. TA buffers the pH from changing wildly with chemical additions. Too low and the pH swings, too high and it pulls the pH up. 60ppm is fine, although may not want to go much lower if at all. Not sure why this would affect the liner.
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Ok, I will keep my eye on the TA. That brings me back to my original question, if the TA drops any lower, and my pH is more on the higher side where I don't want it to go up, what do I do? Would I add some acid first to drop the pH to say 7.4/7.5, and then add baking soda to raise the TA?
 
but I know increasing the TA with baking soda will also increase the pH
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I can't see in the thread that this was ever corrected. Baking soda has virtually no effect on pH.

OP, you might be overthinking the TA a bit. Your pH is the more important parameter and should always be in the 7's. Lower it if it get's above that and control your TA with baking soda if it needs to be raised up into the guidelines suggested in Pool School

Folks live with a wide range of TA.
(worried particularly about corrosion)
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Neither high TA or low TA is "corrosive" as long as you stay within the guidelines in Pool School.
 
duraleigh said:
but I know increasing the TA with baking soda will also increase the pH
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I can't see in the thread that this was ever corrected. Baking soda has virtually no effect on pH.

OP, you might be overthinking the TA a bit. Your pH is the more important parameter and should always be in the 7's. Lower it if it get's above that and control your TA with baking soda if it needs to be raised up into the guidelines suggested in Pool School

Folks live with a wide range of TA.[quote:30y2yl7q] (worried particularly about corrosion)
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Neither high TA or low TA is "corrosive" as long as you stay within the guidelines in Pool School.[/quote:30y2yl7q]

Thank you all very much. I think I am definitely overthinking the TA, but when I noticed I was out of Pool School's recommended range for TA, range of 70-90+ and way out of the range of my test kit's recommended limits which has a range of 100-120, I got a little nervous.


I am taking all of your advice. I have left the pH and TA alone and all seems to be stabilized right now. Like jblizzle said, I guess my pool likes my pH where it has been and I have been intervening when I shouldn't be!! I'm learning :-D
 
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